Gene Simmons: Rock Is Finally Dead

[westen44]

When a subject like this comes up, somebody usually says that if you think good music is hard to find, then you're not looking hard enough, etc.  To some extent that may be true.  But there is a difference between following the music of an established band and following the music of a band faced with an uncertain future--a band that may not even be able to make enough from music to fully focus on it.  Like Gene Simmons says in this article, don't quit your day job is good advice. 


http://www.esquire.com/blogs/culture/gene-simmons-future-of-rock

[gweimer]

I've seen that before, and I've long said that I feel for any young person wanting to pursue a career in music these days.  It's always been a brutal way of life, but now even more.  When I wanted to play for a living, we had one thing going for us - available work.  There were jobs, and money, for those who could prove their worth and worked hard.  If you were willing to travel, there was a LOT of money out there.  I don't think that world exists anymore.    And for everyone who wants to look at Dave Grohl, and say "see, HE did it...", well he's just one person.  For every Grohl, in my day, there were thousands of people who did exactly what he did and failed.  I see the remnants of my generation, and see how many people destroyed their lives, and continue to do so, chasing that rainbow.  Today's generation can probably multiply those numbers several times over.

[Nocturnal]

He makes some good points. And I agree with Gweimer, the live music scene that used to be so robust here is maybe 10% of what it once was. Many of the live music clubs are gone as well so the market is much smaller.

[Basvarken]

POINT / COUNTER POINT: "ROCK 'N' ROLL AIN'T DEAD" by Dee Snider

Recently, my esteemed colleague, Gene Simmons of Kiss declared that "Rock 'n' Roll is finally dead". Really?

While I have nothing but respect for Gene, he couldn't be further off the mark. Yes, the rock 'n' roll "business model" that helped Kiss (and my band for that matter) achieve fame and fortune is most certainly long dead and buried, but rock 'n' roll is alive and well and thriving on social media, in the streets, and in clubs and concert halls all over the world. And the bands playing it are more genuine and heartfelt than ever because they are in it for one reason: the love of rock 'n' roll.

Spend some time seeing and listening to these incredible young bands and their rabid fans and you will know that rock 'n' roll couldn't be more alive. Yes, it's not the same as it was for the first 50 years of rock's existence, but the fire definitely still burns.

And it wasn't some 15 year old kid in Saint Paul, Minnesota (to paraphrase Mr. Simmons) who killed the rock 'n' roll goose that laid the platinum egg...it was greedy, big city, record company moguls who made their own velvet noose to hang themselves with. It was they who took advantage of the consumer (and the artist for that matter) and drove them to use an alternative source of music presented to them.

For example, take the bill of goods the record industry sold the mainstream public when introducing the CD format. "We have to charge more for it, because it's a new technology and there's a cost to setting up the infrastructure to produce them." The consumer believed them--it made sense--so they paid a $18.98 list price for a product they had been paying $7.99 list for previously. After all "you can't break a CD with a hammer!" (Remember that?)

But when the infrastructure was in place and paid for in full, and the cost of producing a CD dropped to less than a dollar, did the record companies roll back the list price in kind? Not on your life. They weren't about to do the right thing and cut their increased revenue stream. Those fat cats were enjoying their ill-gotten gains way too much.

So when the general public finally realized they were being had, and the opportunity arose for them to stick it to the man, what did they do? The same thing their Woodstock Nation, baby boomer parents had done when they had their chance...they stuck it and they stuck it good. Does anyone remember Abbey Hoffman's "Steal this Book", the massive selling, early 70's hippy guide "focused on ways to fight the government, and against corporations in any way possible." Multiply that by a googolplex.

Is it hard to make it rock 'n' roll? You bet. Always was, always will be. Will rockers make as much money as they did "back in the day"? Probably not. But that won't stop them, and they'll be motivated by a much more genuine love of the art, and great rock will continue to be produced, played and embraced by rock fans.

So in conclusion: Record company executives killed the old rock 'n' roll business model...and Rock 'n' Roll Ain't Dead!

Dee Snider/ September 10th, 2014

[westen44]

People illegally downloading music killed rock just as much as the record companies did.  Also, I like CDs.  I still buy them and have been buying them for years.  I suppose it's a weakness and I probably have spent too much.  Nevertheless, I have no complaints.  Bring on the CDs and I'll buy them.  In fact, I just bought George Harrison's "The Apple Years 1968-1975" yesterday.  At over a hundred bucks, it was kind of expensive, but well worth it to me.  It's very hard to pass up a remastered box set of CDs from an artist you really like.  But I guess I'm in the minority and maybe even a freak. 

Plus, where are all the great new rock bands that Dee Snyder is talking about?  Oh, in the streets, concert halls, and clubs all around the world.  I'm sure they'll be easy to find even if 99.9% of the population has never heard of them. 

[Pilgrim]

I like CDs and find them to be a valuable archival medium.

But Snider is 100% RIGHT when he said the public realizes they've been screwed by CD pricing.  When I go into a store and see them charging $15 for a CD that comes from a 1960's or 1970's master, I know damn well they paid their production expenses decades ago.  What's more, they paid all their marketing expenses as well - and they're not actively marketing a 30-year-old CD any longer.

And we all know that the promotion and marketing are much bigger cost factors for the music company than the production cost.

That should be a $5 CD.  But that's not how it's sold...they're overcharging.

No wonder people download music.  They've paid for the same music 3 or 4 times in different formats (vinyl, cassette, CD) and somewhere they've decided they've paid enough.

[OldManC]

The thing that has surprised me the most in this whole drama is that so many people, even fairly well known guys like Dave Grohl and Dee Snider, fell all over themselves to get some press by riding bashing Gene's coattails, while missing or ignoring what Gene had to say. Dee is right. CD prices were a scam that the industry held onto as long as they could, and I would bet that absolutely contributed to Napster and everything that followed, but I haven't read where anybody successfully refuted Gene's actual point, in that the industry model for up and coming rock bands is dead, and has been for some time. Even if we argue over what killed it, I don't think anyone can say he's wrong there.

For a guy who's either long washed up or who never really mattered to real musicians and rock guys, Gene's hot air (which I, even as an old time fan, am well aware of) sure gets a lot of attention in and out of the industry.

[Highlander]

Years back, I remember a UK BBC programme called Tomorrow's World demonstrating the transfer of one 3 or 4 minute song by digital means from one place to another and it taking the length of most of the 30 minute or one hour show, and the fact that it was unlikely to catch on...

The Djinn is out of the bottle, but rock is not dead; just the manager...

As long as there are strings, timber, and a means of amplifying them, Gentlemen, and Ladies, the show goes on, and folks self-manage and pump it out on youtube and such, taking out the middleman, imho...

[westen44]

Sometimes I spend quite a bit of time searching on YT for bands/artists that I may not know much about.  Maybe I know nothing about them.  Usually, the search is fairly fruitless.  If I try to find live bands playing within driving distance, it's almost all country, hip-hop/pop, etc.  Not really my cup of tea.  Fortunately, I am able to get Later...with Jools Holland on cable now.  At least there's that. 

[Father Gino]

Maybe rock was dead way before anyone ever heard of Gene Simmons.

I remember some guy saying years ago that Sgt Pepper was the death of rock & roll. Didn't understand that statement at the time but now I do.

I lament the death of live music in general more than any file sharing issue.

Everything in the world seems to be more & more form over function. Kiss was a shinning example. Remember their brief experiment with not looking like circus clowns?

[patman]

I spend a big portion of my life playing rock n roll...it's not dead, but I'm a dying breed....

[Dave W]

I have nothing but contempt for Gene Simmons. It's no secret that I've never liked him, but since I read that article last month and some of his other recent comments, I positively loathe him. He's not a musician, he's nothing but a jackass who performs only in order to get paid. An organ grinder's monkey has more artistic integrity.

For a relatively short time in the 70s and 80s, some performers could actually make money from the sale of records. Even then, 99.5% of artists never made a dime. Did those people stop creating? Did they stop playing?

Did you know that federal copyright never applied to recordings prior to 1972? Didn't recording artists create huge volumes of great music before then?

Don't talk to me about piracy. If piracy could be prevented, there's no evidence that the vast majority of pirates would buy what they pirate. There is evidence that more people will pay for music if it's made accessible at a reasonable price. The recording industry isn't interested in doing this. Screw them.

Don't talk to me about copyright. It's not "intellectual property" -- it's not property at all. It's a government monopoly that prevents people from using or sharing their property. Its purpose has never been compensating artists and creators. Look into its history -- it's always been about protecting publishers and distributors: the businessmen, not the artists and authors. Music throughout its history has been created and shared by communities. The idea that its purpose is to make money is very recent. The whole purpose of copyright is to prevent the sharing of culture so that the industry can make money and toss a few crumbs to a few creators.

The article has nothing to do with rock being dead. it's about Simmons lamenting that he can't make money from record sales like he used to. Screw him.

[Denis]

Jeez, Dave, don't sugarcoat it. Tell us how you really feel! 

I grew up liking KISS, seeing them in 1976 when my dad took me. Much, much later, I lost a lot of respect for Simmons when Terri Gross interviewed him on "Fresh Air" and he treated her like a piece of shit, even calling her ugly and he could see why she was on the radio rather than television. It was awful.

[patman]

Thanks for saying what I was thinking, Dave.

[nofi]

same here. simmons is useless but his non stop mouth lives on.