Gene Simmons: Rock Is Finally Dead

[OldManC]

Great find, Uwe. And that's the playing and player that made me want to play bass in the first place.

[uwe]

It bugs me that unfounded conventional wisdom is that he is a lame player when he actually played more than what was required. And it always drew a smile on my face that he had this horror image yet played what was essentially pop bass. People didn't actually listen, but just made assumptions.

[OldManC]

Yep. Obviously the image was also a draw for my ten year old self, but the bass lines were so much like what I grew up hearing in the late 60s and early 70s that the music drew me in even more than the show. That kind of melodic pop music was my introduction to rock music. For a long time, any band where I could hear shades of the Beatles at least got my attention, and I heard that in KISS' music pretty early on.

[uwe]

He's always admitted that he was/is a Beatles-nerd.



PS: I know it's incredibly cheesy, but "Anything for my Baby" was my favorite track on Dressed to Kill.

Though Stanley force-rhyming "nearer" (pronounced "neeeeruh" by him) with "mirror" (pronounced "meeeeeruh" by him) on 'Come on and Love me' was a corny highpoint too!

"You were distant, now you're nearer
I can feel your face inside the mirror"

Wouldn't he be "seeing" rather than "feeling" her face inside the mirror unless they were both snorting cocaine at the same time? 

But being corny was part of Kiss' charm. 

[westen44]

Ever since I saw Gene's bass playing described as being entrenched in 60s rock to the point of being old fashioned by 70s' standards that got my attention.  Also, the part about him playing behind the beat.  I totally identify with this style of playing.  I haven't listened to KISS much, but maybe I should.  But if that kind of bass playing is considered bad by some people (and I'm sure it is,) then my own bass playing is also bad.  If it is, then so be it.  I'm not changing; it's way too ingrained now.  Plus, I actually like it. 

Edit:  I decided to check around at other places and read what other people might be saying.  I'm not so well-versed in musical terminology as Uwe, but "playing behind the beat" is not a bad thing.  It has nothing with that.  I actually saw some comments somewhere else in which people thought it was an excuse for having bad timing.  Sheesh.  Tming is the least of my worries.  It's always what I've been best at.  The down side, though, is that sometimes I do wonder if I should have been a drummer.  Nevertheless, having good timing as a bassist is critical, IMO. 

[uwe]

If playing behind the beat is a bad thing, then John Bonham was a horrible drummer. Most people would disagree. Bonham had a great sense of timing, but he was almost always behind the beat. I didn't mean it as a bad thing, it's just comparatively rare with hard rock bassists to be behind the beat though Boz Burrell of Bad Co was way behind the beat too, it was part of Bad Co's charm.

Take Lars' behind-the-beat drumming away from Metallica and the band wouldn't sound the same and lose a lot of its heaviness. Strangely enough he's an Ian Paice fan and prefers him over Bonham (Paice is on top or slightly ahead of the beat, it's his swing style).

I'm personally more of a ahead-of-the-beat player, more so as a young man than today, but you don't really have a choice about that, you are what you are.

[westen44]

John Paul Jones talks about playing behind the beat here;  I think it starts at about 12 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaa1axJ63Qg&feature=player_detailpage#t=710s

[amptech]

Gotta resurrect this to make a point:

For all those who believe that Gene Simmons is a bad bassist ...



I think he's quite busy, melodic and - even for 1974 when this was recorded - endearingly old-fashioned. More Macca than Geezer Butler. The album "Dressed to Kill" (my first Kiss album and I listened to it intently) is full with good time-bass lines like that. The "Demon's" bass playing was utterly undemonic, he wouldn't have sounded out of place with Chicago. Sheesh, he even doubled vocal lines!

Is it my speakers, or is the bass the only thing that sounds good on this recording? Thumbs up for Gene (for once:-) but everything sounds like a magnetophone recording except that bassline.

[uwe]

It was just a demo for the sessions for Dressed to Kill! His bass on the final version is also more sparse, he was still experimenting.

[copacetic]

Did not have time to go through that John Paul Jones video. I will say this however. He was a huge fan of the Meters and followed them religiously and attended any of their gigs he could. I know cause we are connected by family ( the Meters that is not Zep)and he would always be sitting pretty at out of the way places like Cotati, CA, off the River in Mississippi etc). Yes  if playing behind the beat is a bad thing I am doomed as well. I learned from George Porter and Zig Modeliste ( personally) all about the drum/ bass relationship. AND where would a certain Richard Starkey and his influence be with a a good sense of the back beat. That band came together when he came in.