Gene Simmons: Rock Is Finally Dead

[westen44]

How many of the great independent rock bands discovered on MySpace years ago are still around?  Obviously, no one even goes to MySpace anymore, although supposedly one of the main original purposes was for bands to have a way to promote themselves.  How well that worked out is debatable.  How many successful bands around are there being promoted as the great YouTube band?  There are exceptions to this, and I've seen a few, but using YouTube as a primary method of promotion seems like a hard row to hoe to me. 

One thing I'm already sick of is bands adding an extra song that is only available on iTunes.  I'd rather they just put everything on an album (in whatever form) and that way I can buy everything at once.  This "you can get this if you do that, or get that if you do this" is for the birds. 

[patman]

I like the album format...I just bought 2 bluegrass CD's directly from the band website.  Figured that way they probably got more money. I don't own an IPOD.

[OldManC]

[quote author=Basvarken link=topic=9160.msg152925#msg152925 date=1413317750

I like the way Rock bands get creative when circumstances change. For example Gov't Mule; they record each show they play and offer the mixed tracks with updated artwork a few days later on a special website they have.
Sure enough they won't sell millions. But they keep the fans of their music connected to what they're doing.
And they appear quite relentless doing so.

Rock took a left turn. And Gene Simmons missed it.
[/quote]

The first time I experienced the insta-CD was at a KISS show around ten or eleven years ago. They had the first CD ready as the show ended and the second was ready 20 minutes later. They weren't the only ones but it was fairly rare at the time. The technology is cheap enough now that the last one I got was last year after a Glenn Tilbrook show on a tour that was basically four or five people in an RV road tripping across America.

The problem with this argument is that everyone is talking about different things. The rock music career model that KISS and everyone else in that era experienced is dead. Gene wasn't talking about indy bands or garage bands or anything else. Why it's dead can be argued, but that it's dead is pretty well established these days, isn't it?

I gave up on Gene being any sort of rock n roll hero to me years ago, but I'll give the guy credit for figuring out a way to keep his name out there and be a bigger entity in the pop culture at freakin' 65 than he ever was at 25 or 30. Not only did he have all sorts of rockers (current and has-beens) lining up to refute him (and, coincidentally, get their name in the press at the same time), but here we are still arguing about an interview that happened over a month ago. The guy hasn't recorded a decent song in decades but he's still on everyone's mind and lips (no pun intended), especially those who love to hate him.

[Dave W]

Since when has the definition of Rock become "the music that is commercially successful"?
Sure enough Rock music sales have come to staggering all time low.
But that is not what it's about, as far as I'm concerned.
To me Rock is a music genre. Not some economical standard that bands need to live up to.

I saw Five Horse Johnson in Paradiso, Amsterdam perform in front of a handful of die hard fans. Black Berry Smoke performing in a club venue the size of our living room.  Swimming upstream because that is what you want to do. That is what Rock is all about.

Gene Simmons is confusing commercial stadium pop with Rock.
The music industry that Herr Simmons represents (or is a part of) is flat on it's back and still has no clue where they went wrong.

As long as boys and girls go pick up a guitar and crank it up to eleven to create music with their bandmates, Rock is alive and kicking. As far as I'm concerned.

Amen!

Maybe the article should have more fittingly been called "the rock industry is finally dead". And the rock industry as it existed in the sixties, seventies and eighties (and even early nineties) which pushed rock music (some good, some bad, some average) into households as a cultural force is indeed dead.

Rob holds a romantic grassroots approach against it "as long as a couple of kids can get together and make music ...". True, that even then there will still be rock music, but there will be no platform for the long-term success of specific artists. It's a bit like saying that if the auto industry of the world came to an end, that would have no effect as long as there are people out there that ocassionally build a non-brand car for themselves. Or if Fender and Gibson disappeared overnight that would be of no consequence either, people could still build their own guitars.

I couldn't care less about the industry. I care about music. The "rock industry" and the larger music industry only cares about profiteering by locking up culture and keeping people from sharing music as people and cultures have since the dawn of time. Damned shame that we can't lock all the music industry execs and lobbyists in a condemned building and then bulldoze it to the ground.

That's why I said earlier that Gene Simmons isn't a musician, he's just a jackass who performs in order to get paid. I also said that an organ grinder's monkey has more artistic integrity, but on second thought I didn't mean to insult the monkeys by comparing them to Simmons. The monkeys don't have a choice.

[uwe]

"I couldn't care less about the industry. I care about music. The "rock industry" and the larger music industry only cares about profiteering by locking up culture and keeping people from sharing music as people and cultures have since the dawn of time. Damned shame that we can't lock all the music industry execs and lobbyists in a condemned building and then bulldoze it to the ground."

Dave, that is so incredibly naive, I can't believe you wrote it. Libertarian voodoo wonderland crap. Do you really believe Shakespeare would have written (or whoever did it for him, can of worms here ...) all his plays had he not been able to profit from his work?

"That's why I said earlier that Gene Simmons isn't a musician, he's just a jackass who performs in order to get paid. I also said that an organ grinder's monkey has more artistic integrity, but on second thought I didn't mean to insult the monkeys by comparing them to Simmons. The monkeys don't have a choice."

He's musician enough for me. I bet you have never concentrated on one of his bass lines on those earlier albums. Without smoke bombs, make up, big mouth comments, just a very melodic and contrapunctual, even motownish bass line.



But that's obviously not music in your book and he's not a musician.





"A jackass who performs in order to get paid ...".

A most brilliant argument, Dave, really, how can he, that then puts him in the same league as Mario Lanza, Yehudi Menuhin, Rudolf Nureyev and Maria Callas. All four, IIRC, "performed to get paid". Dis-gus-ting.



"no artistic integrity"

I don't know what your definition of "artisitic integrity" is, but ole Chaim has certainly always been the most outspoken Kiss member as regards criticizing their own work. He's on record for disliking almost all their 80ies output, for straying from their initial hard rock with albums such as Dynasty, Unmasked and The Elder, for limp production (Crazy Nights), the list goes on. 

Uwe

Gruppenführer of the DJDPDL (Descendants of Jewish Displaced Persons Defense League)

PS: If I could pick a rock star to have a nice dinner and some, no copious amounts of red wine with, I'd probably pick Herr Simmons ahead of all Deep Purple and Beatle members, deceased or still with us. I'm sure we wouldn't agree on many things, but it would be an entertaining night. I think the guy is cool, undiluted, tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek and pleasantly world-weary. He's by far the most interesting aspect of Kiss, musically or otherwise. And his make-up was the coolest of them all (Peter looked like a Cats Musical extra, Paul like a girl and Ace like a Marvel Comic figure), so there! 

[lowend1]

Sveden weighs in...
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/yngwie-malmsteen-says-new-bands-have-no-chance-of-becoming-rock-stars/

[lowend1]

[quote author=Basvarken link=topic=9160.msg152925#msg152925 date=1413317750

I like the way Rock bands get creative when circumstances change. For example Gov't Mule; they record each show they play and offer the mixed tracks with updated artwork a few days later on a special website they have.
Sure enough they won't sell millions. But they keep the fans of their music connected to what they're doing.
And they appear quite relentless doing so.

Rock took a left turn. And Gene Simmons missed it.


The first time I experienced the insta-CD was at a KISS show around ten or eleven years ago. They had the first CD ready as the show ended and the second was ready 20 minutes later. They weren't the only ones but it was fairly rare at the time. The technology is cheap enough now that the last one I got was last year after a Glenn Tilbrook show on a tour that was basically four or five people in an RV road tripping across America.

Yeah, the insta-CD (thank you, George) is a great idea in theory - but not without its issues. A couple years back, Peter Frampton was coming to NJ with his great "FCA35" show and selling CDs following. Unfortunately, union regulations in NJ required a "royalty" payment by the artist that was rooted in data from the days when his albums sold millions of copies. Rather than pay the fee, they passed on recording and I settled for a copy of the previous night's show in MA.
A year or so later, I attended the BadCo / Skynyrd show up in Bethel Woods, NY. With BadCo being my favorite band of all time, I was excited to hear that CDs of the show would be available following the concert. Again, things went awry - we were told at the CD booth that they had "run out of discs" and would be shipping in a week or so. I paid my money and was told to expect a receipt by e-mail. Two weeks later, no receipt, no CD, no acceptable communication from the company. I contacted the venue to see if they had any inkling of what was going on. No response. I barraged the company's Facebook page, along with other disgruntled consumers on a daily basis. Finally a report surfaced that an employee of the company had gone AWOL with the customer list and money (really?), and that we would be contacted by a representative to arrange shipment. I received a call from their "top man" in the department (more on him in a minute) who assured me that CDs would be shipping that week. Not so much. After more FB posts and additional excuses, the discs finally arrived - a total of almost three months after the show. The phone number of the rep who called me showed up on my caller ID, so I started doing some creative sleuthing on FB and Linkedin to pass the time while waiting for my discs. Turns out he was / is the bassist for a fairly well-known West Coast hair metal(ish) band.

[uwe]

Sveden weighs in...
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/yngwie-malmsteen-says-new-bands-have-no-chance-of-becoming-rock-stars/

And for once Yngwie is spot on right. The internet can give you huge exposure for a short period of time (Andy Warhol's "everyone will be a star for 15 minutes or so" comes in here) at little or no cost, but it doesn't have enduring clout nor focus to break a band permanently.

[uwe]

"With BadCo being my favorite band of all time ...".

I had no idea, Lowie! David Coverdale once quipped that BadCo sounded "like a mix between us (he meant the MK III DP line up) and JJ Cale", I thought that was somehow apt, the Brit Blues Rock influence coupled with some Americana and Cale's inherent sparseness. (Of course you could rightfully argue that David Coverdale was only second choice to DP's initial wish to have Rodgers sing in the post-Gillan era, they had even goaded Glenn Hughes into the band leading him to believe he would sing with Rodgers, something Hughes looked forward to.) BadCo were probably the most economically playing hard rock band of all time, kind of CCRish in that respect.

So what are your favorite albums? I liked "Straight Shooter" over the (nevertheless very good, but a little too much "old Mott the Hoople-riffs rehashing") debut and really dig Burning Sky, decadent as it was as an end-seventies product and with Ralphs being relegated to mere sideman status for Rodger's compositions (he wrote the whole album).

I only saw them live once with Brian Howe (opening for Deep Purple in 1987, Boz was still with them), it was competent, but BadCo without Rodgers ...

Speaking of Boz, you are aware of this here AND THE MUSICIANS INVOLVED ON THIS RECORDING?



Jon Lord was set to join BadCo in the late seventies following the demise of DP MK IV. Burrell, Ralphs and Kirke wanted him in, but Rodgers had seond thoughts about BadCo becoming all too "dinosaurish" in a New Wave environment with Jon's trademark Hammond sound. So Jon eventually joined Whitesnake.

[lowend1]

Other than Boz, I'm at a loss here - enlighten me.
I'm assuming that Blackie Lawless was not involved...

[uwe]

Tsk, tsk, tsk - Blackmore on lead guitar, Ian Paice on drums and Jon Lord on keyboards. Derek Lawrence who had high hopes with Boz used them as session musicians just shortly before they recorded as Deep Purple.

Then you are unaware of this as well? 



Lord on keys, Ashton on vox, Ralphs on guit, Burrell on bass and Kirke on drums. Only Rodgers is missing!

[amptech]

I'll give the guy credit for figuring out a way to keep his name out there

He certainly does, just look at this thread! Regardless if one likes him or not, at least people gather round the campfire here and
bring out many interesting points about a very important subject. That's good work, Genie boy!

[amptech]

PS: If I could pick a rock star to have a nice dinner and some, no copious amounts of red wine with, I'd probably pick Herr Simmons ahead of all Deep Purple and Beatle members, deceased or still with us.

If I was paying, I'd take David Bowie in the mid 70's.

' Just peppers and a glass of milk for me, please ' 

[uwe]

I'd prefer him more around the Station to Station/The Man Who Fell to Earth/Thin White Duke phase, he was strangest then. Diamond Dogs and Station to Station I even prefer over the (already very good) Ziggy stuff.

[Basvarken]

And for once Yngwie is spot on right. The internet can give you huge exposure for a short period of time (Andy Warhol's "everyone will be a star for 15 minutes or so" comes in here) at little or no cost, but it doesn't have enduring clout nor focus to break a band permanently.

Whahaa! Yngwie is spot on?! When did that happen? 
Yngwie is ranting about making a chance of being a Rock star and being able to buy a Ferrari.

That has nothing to do with Rock music itself.