New mesa Prodigy

[drbassman]

Any thoughts on the specs of these new amps?  Construction?

[dadagoboi]

You could start here:
http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Bass_Amps/prodigy/bassProdigy.html

[drbassman]

I guess I hould have been more specific.  I was wondering what the amp experts thought of the specs/manufacturer claims.

Vastly improved Tone, features, dial-ability, portability, packaging and control over the entire spectrum make the PRODIGY™ an iconic step forward in Bass amplification. With an all-new tube preamp, a 5-position Rotary VOICE Selector, Multi-Watt™ 2-Way Selectable Power, Footswitchable SOLO and VOICE control (optional footswitch required), Rear Tuner Outputs, and an all new, high output power section utilizing four KT-88s – the PRODIGY is THE tube Bass Amplifier for the new millenium.

PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS:

Finally, a compact, portable tube bass amp that packs the massive tone and expressive feel only possible from tubes, into a midsized "lunchbox" package

Weighs Only 29lbs
Tube Power Amp & Preamp featuring 4xKT88 Power Tubes & 3x12AX7 Preamp Tubes
Class A/B, Multi-Watt™ Power Amp provides two power options via a Full/Half Power Switch
Choose from:

4 power tubes, producing 250 Tube-Watts* ("Sounds like in excess of 500") or
2 tubes, producing 125 Tube-Watts*

[Psycho Bass Guy]

You can still get conventional power amp topology (Class A/B- IOW, "normal") with weight that light, even with tubes. The power and output transformers would have to be toroidial, but it's easily possible and cheaper to build. There's a bigger version still in the works, the Strategy Eight/88, which packs twice the power of the Prodigy. Mesa killed the Bass 400+, which is no back-breaker to start out with, to develop these since the buzzword in bass amps is "lightweight." Some of their s/s heads weighed about the same as the 400+, and they've quietly put them out to pasture, too: the Basis M-2000 and Carbine M3 are gone too. The M-2000 was a great amp, but way too complicated for the average player (many of them are STILL sitting on store shelves NOS after ten+ years) and the Carbine M3 didn't pack enough power for the price/weight.

The wattage/volume blurbs are typical Mesa hype: ie- the Bass "400+" is a 240 watt amp on a GOOD day, same for its predecessor the Bass 400. Mesa bass amps generally sound good to great but tend to be more pricey than most folks want to pay. I applaud the fact that they're a US manufacturer, but a lot of their supposed "rep" is self-created, and Randall Smith is a patent troll of the first order, even if he IS super nice on the phone. Don't even get me started on their bull$hit tube "testing and rating system." Until I see pictures of guts of a Prodigy/Strategy or get to try one out (you KNOW the local GC's are going to be stocking those... NOT) I can't comment any further, but for the record, I am VERY cautiously optimistic.

Garbage like this:

NOTE: IMPORTANT! DO NOT ATTACH OR USE A CABINET OR CABINETS WHOSE IMPEDANCE/LOAD IS LOWER THAN 4 OHMS. USE OF A 2 OHM LOAD ON THE AMPLIFIER WILL DRAMATICALLY STRESS THE POWER TUBES AND OUTPUT TRANSFORMER, AND MAY CAUSE EXTENSIVE AND EXPENSIVE NON-WARRANTY DAMAGE TO THE AMPLIFIER.

and this:

MESA/Boogie amplifiers can handle 4 and 8 ohms effectively. Never run below 4 ohms in a tube amplifier unless you are absolutely certain that the system can handle it properly; this can cause damage to the Output transformer. A few amplifiers can handle 2 ohms effectively without damaging them ( for example the MESA'S Bass 400+ ). You can always have a higher resistance ( 16 ohms, for example ) without damaging results, but too low of a resistance will likely cause problems.

doesn't do much to help my faith. The advice is entirely wrong, dangerously so in many other amps, but Mesa runs its B+ line fairly conservatively, so in many cases, people who follow their faulty advice never know that they're slowly destroying their output transformer, but the physics of many series/parallel cabinet connections which most modern bass cabinet makers employ also play to their favor with that, too. I seriously cannot believe that they have any in-depth knowledge of basic tube amp operation and flyback voltage (how CRT TV's work) and still put idiocy like that in their manuals. Oh well, it's their ass, not mine.

[drbassman]

So what would be an equivalent/comparable amp to this one with at least 250 watts?  I'm thinking more head room than I currently have.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

So what would be an equivalent/comparable amp to this one with at least 250 watts?  I'm thinking more head room than I currently have.

The trouble with many modern tube amps is that because they're tube, they're designed to NOT have the same headroom/gain structure of a s/s bass amp because, of course,

tubes ALWAYS = distortion

The Bass Prodigy may actually fit the bill. I won't know until I see one in person. Online reviews and sound clips are mostly worthless.  Bass 400+'s are plenty loud but dirty, but with a few tweaks, can be much cleaner and punchier, like mine. They're basically a throttled-back Fender Studio Bass power section with extra power tubes and a s/s graphic EQ. If you want loud, cheap, tubes and light, the Peavey VB-2 is the way to go. I can't say enough about how good of an amp it is. I don't have one, but if given the opportunity, I would. Traynor's current stuff is excellent, too.

[drbassman]

So you are saying there's more head room in ss amps?  I have to say that the Mesa M Pulse 600 sounded really good to me.  Lots of headroom and great tone.

Might I do as well with a high watt ss amp?

[Psycho Bass Guy]

So you are saying there's more head room in ss amps?  I have to say that the Mesa M Pulse 600 sounded really good to me.  Lots of headroom and great tone.

Might I do as well with a high watt ss amp?

That's not what I'm saying at all. I was commenting that many recent tube bass amps are designed to distort because that's how modern marketing has 'sold' tube amps. Amps like the Mesa Bass 400+, Sunn 300T/Fender Bassman 300, and the Ampeg SVT CL aren't designed for maximum clean volume because players "expect" tube distortion out of them. You can attest just how loud 100 AND clean tube watts can be.

[drbassman]

I get it now.  I didn't understand your design remark.  I see the marketing angle, making new tube amps sound like old ones.  Makes sense.

[Pilgrim]

I get it now.  I didn't understand your design remark.  I see the marketing angle, making new tube amps sound like old ones.  Makes sense.

It sure does.  That seems to be the specific reason that many people buy tubes. 

[Aussie Mark]

The Traynor YBA-300 has oodles of clean headroom.  I sold mine and went back to a YBA-200 because it was too clean for my liking - at the volumes we played at.  No doubt it would have got some distortion at a stadium concert though LOL

[Dave W]

Eh...Mesa's hype is nothing new. 4 KT88s get what they get, not "sounds like 500." Likewise, I never paid any attention to the claim that the 400+ is 500 watts.

The shipping weight on my Mesa 400+ was only 52 lbs., I suspect the amp weighs about 45 if you don't put it in a rack or enclosure. That's light to me. Building a 29 lb. tube amp means something's gotta be sacrificed.

The Bass Prodigy will probably be loud and sound good. Beyond that, I'd have to hear it head to head against a comparable tube amp.

BTW, didn't Mesa pull out of GC?

[Dave W]

Sweetwater has these arriving soon, $1799 for the Bass Prodigy Four, $2399 for the Bass Strategy Eight which they call 465 watts. Good grief, the supposed reason they discontinued the Bass 400+ was that sales dropped after they had to raise the retail to $1800. I'd sell mine for a lot less that that!

[drbassman]

Based on this thread and a couple others, I'm thinking a Traynor might be a good one to experiment with.  There's even a dealer in Buffalo/Niagara Falls area.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I thought I remembered seeing a pic of a Prodigy chassis and I did here.



Those are most definitely NOT toroidial transformers:



like the Koch/Eden/Sadowsky VT-300 had.

I'm not a fan of ribbon cables, but those look heavy-duty, and the main bus lines look pretty big, too, as well as the clump of filter caps. I want to see that thing make clean full power on a scope and a meter, 32 volts into 4 ohms at 40 Hz. Those transformers look too small. At a glance, I'd say that it probably makes an honest 150-180 watts, which puts it right in line with Mesa's historical naming/rating versus actual output. There are ways to get the power they claim and more out of that little of amp real estate, but Mesa traditionally is conservative in its circuits and loud with its advertising.

With them pulling out of GC, which has been LONG overdue, their new price list looks like they're aiming squarely at the 'booteek' collector market outside the US. Notice there's no line of cabinets to match= not geared for the average gigging musician. I don't see how they ever maintained GC in the first place. Even only in "select" stores, the amps very clearly were rushed in production. The year and a half I worked at GC, not a SINGLE Mesa came off the truck 100% functional.