Music Man HD-130 and Ampeg cab review

[Rob]

Don't need the volume so much as I like to disperse the sound around the stage area,

That outta do it! 

[Pilgrim]

It doesn't sound like the Hon. Dr. Bassman's layoff from bass-playing lasted long.

[drbassman]

Oh I'm fine.  Got some pinched nerve issues in my back and shoulder, but I'm great otherwise.  Still cancer free and feeling super.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

The second MM rig I just bought with the two MM cabs is acting up.  It's making some weird sounds.

What do they sound like?

[drbassman]

What do they sound like?

I'll listen closely tonight and report back.  It was distorted as I recall.  I haven't practiced for 2 weeks!

[amptech]

Did you use both of the speakers that came with the MM´s?
Were they both 8 ohms?

[drbassman]

Did you use both of the speakers that came with the MM´s?
Were they both 8 ohms?

Yes, each set up is an MM 130, each with two 8 ohm 15s and the switch on the back of the amp set to 4ohm.  The one rig didn't start distorting until after and hour or so of playing.  Going to practice in ten minutes.  More to come.

[drbassman]

Well, practice showed that the speakers just don't handle the volume I need for the room.  After all, they are about 40 years old!  Might just sell the cabs and keep the amp.  It seems to be working fine.

[drbassman]

As a follow-up to the speakers, the main problem with the rig were vibration issues.  By putting one cab too close to the drums, I set his heads and snare in motion big-time every time I played the e-string. So, we had to move that.  Someone also put wheels on the cabs and they rattled like crazy.  So, they gotta go if I decide to upgrade things.  As I noted, the speakers really aren't handling the volume I was playing at and I was getting some distortion through them.

So, amp buddies, would it be worth my while to upgrade the 15" speakers in these cabs or just go with newer current technology cabs?  Changing the cabs location on stage and losing the wheels will help the noise issues considerably.

[Granny Gremlin]

The JBL will take the power (especially if it's got a partner) - it's just that other one (the stock Eminence, was it?  I forget and can't be bothered to scroll back a few pages) - those just can't take bass at louder volumes without farting out.  Change the speaker.  Personally I recommend anything in EV's higher powered range (I use an SP15a, not the vintage hifi one, but the relatively modern one with that stupid fake heat sink on the back - really fast transient response for a 15, and more top end than any other for sure too, but it's not for everyone; not actually a bass guitar speaker - they make more traditional style bass guitar 15s, but I like the extra top and lack of 15ish sluggishness - means I don't need a second cab for detail/clarity/harmonics).

... now if you were closer to me geographically I'd be all like "how much"  because I really want a second.

I'd recommend changing that non-JBL out for anything decent and seeing if that resolves the matter - you can get $40 for the stock speaker on ebay/craigslist (or keep as emerg spare).  If you do sell both, the JBL alone should get you $120 minimum (I'll totally take the empty cab, if the shipping can be sorted - it's really too bad they cancelled the Toronto-Rochester ferry).

... and yeah, mine causes a lot of snare rattle too (but so do the guitar amps; there's hardly any avoiding it).

[Pilgrim]

That E string causes all kind of interesting resonance issues.  I've wondered if a low B or C string would be even worse about making drum and building parts dance around.

[amptech]

Yes, each set up is an MM 130, each with two 8 ohm 15s and the switch on the back of the amp set to 4ohm.  The one rig didn't start distorting until after and hour or so of playing.  Going to practice in ten minutes.  More to come.

It´s been a couple of posts already on this thread already, excuse me if I´m repeating stuff...

You´ve hooked the cabs up in parallel (two jacks on one of the cabs) so that the amp gets the right load?
(not plugging both cabs into the amp, which is series wired) 

[drbassman]

It´s been a couple of posts already on this thread already, excuse me if I´m repeating stuff...

You´ve hooked the cabs up in parallel (two jacks on one of the cabs) so that the amp gets the right load?
(not plugging both cabs into the amp, which is series wired) 

Yep, I did a parallel hookup.

[amptech]

As a follow-up to the speakers, the main problem with the rig were vibration issues.  By putting one cab too close to the drums, I set his heads and snare in motion big-time every time I played the e-string. So, we had to move that.  Someone also put wheels on the cabs and they rattled like crazy.  So, they gotta go if I decide to upgrade things.  As I noted, the speakers really aren't handling the volume I was playing at and I was getting some distortion through them.

So, amp buddies, would it be worth my while to upgrade the 15" speakers in these cabs or just go with newer current technology cabs?  Changing the cabs location on stage and losing the wheels will help the noise issues considerably.

First, speaker cabinet design is´t really my field, I´m more into amplifier design.
Acoustics is a quite big field, and the variety of possible matching drivers is endless.

That said, I did enjoy doing research for my own optimum MusicMan rig upgrade.
The few fellow bassists-with-MM experience I´ve met all say the same - it´s 70´s sounding, boomy, rattling, unreliable gear that only works together (MM amps/cabs). Guitar players seem to like them better.

I talked to a speaker designer (we have a great speaker factory in my hometown - HiFi, but made a few good guitar speakers in the 60`s and 70`s) about the ´reflex horn´cabinet design. It couldn´t be that shitty design?
Anyway, his view was that the cabinet itself was fine, but finding the right speaker for it might be difficult. Resonance frequenzy, sensitivity, etc would have to be chosen with care. This was many years ago, and it might be easier now to calculate such things - but at the time i was looking for something with ohms and watts chosen to fit.

My 212RH cab never sounded good, but when you´re 15 years old a tube amp and a big cab does the job anyway.
It came with blown speakers, a couple of 1975 fender guitar speakers was fitted when i got it.
(I used the 130 head with 115/410 peavey cabs until I got the 212RH) The sound was boxy and harsh, very midrange strong, but not in a good way. Later changed them to some late 70´s ROLA´s, same rating and ohms but with quicker response and much louder. (we stiffened the paper cone at the factory) Still quite harsh sounding, a bit more bottom but not tight - just boomy.

I then gave the head a full service,  just to be sure. One day the ´speaker man`came by our rehearsal room, and took a look at the speaker cab. He asked if I had removed the dampening, but there never was any.
Installing dampening made a huge difference, took care of the `unnatural´ sounds and boom.

When I one day finally got the 115RH cab I´ve been looking for , well - forever, I was glad to see it had the original EVM15L speaker. But it was blown. I reconed it with a kit from soundspeaker repair in U.S., 400w 8ohm.
I dampened this cab too, and put large rubber feet on both cabs. And the results was great, one of the sweetest sounds heard in ages for me! Really tight lows/low mids, punchy, not boomy, quick responding, great!
But sadly it was only the 115RH that was great, couldn´t use them together. The 212RH was too loud (even both cabs were 8 ohms ) and still not sounding right, too much harshness in the mids, so still there was work to be done.

I´m not finished yet, I know this is getting long.... go grab a beer or something

Anyway, at this point I just wrote letters to some of the manufacturers of 12" bass/guitar speakers, ready to buy from whoever with the best answer to my 212RH questions. Celestion responded quickly, and recommended a speaker called BN12-200 (200W 4ohm neodym). Not available here in scandinavia, but watford valves in the U.K. had them.
It is my first experience with neodymium magnets, and the verdict is that they are better than any 12" bass speaker      I´ve   used. Nice and balanced, very quick, bright. Very even frequenzy response, all in all a pleasant sounding speaker for this application.

Best of all : a perfect match with the 115RH cab- the whole rig now sounds fantastic! Sounds good with my EB-6 too.
Sounds good with a Grabber, EB-3, Rick 4001, anything. Even made my ´75 P bass sound good!

Bottom line here, these cabs sound great with care taken tuning (dampening) them, making the grille sit, etc.
Rubber feet are fine, too. And if you find the right speaker, they wont let you down.
I am of the opinion that the 115RH enclosure was designed for the EVM15L, and that´s probably a good choice if you can get them.  

[Granny Gremlin]

The few fellow bassists-with-MM experience I´ve met all say the same - it´s 70´s sounding, boomy, rattling, unreliable gear that only works together (MM amps/cabs). Guitar players seem to like them better.

I talked to a speaker designer (we have a great speaker factory in my hometown - HiFi, but made a few good guitar speakers in the 60`s and 70`s) about the ´reflex horn´cabinet design. It couldn´t be that shitty design?
Anyway, his view was that the cabinet itself was fine, but finding the right speaker for it might be difficult. Resonance frequenzy, sensitivity, etc would have to be chosen with care. This was many years ago, and it might be easier now to calculate such things - but at the time i was looking for something with ohms and watts chosen to fit.

My 212RH cab never sounded good, but when you´re 15 years old a tube amp and a big cab does the job anyway.
It came with blown speakers, a couple of 1975 fender guitar speakers was fitted when i got it.
(I used the 130 head with 115/410 peavey cabs until I got the 212RH) The sound was boxy and harsh, very midrange strong, but not in a good way. Later changed them to some late 70´s ROLA´s, same rating and ohms but with quicker response and much louder. (we stiffened the paper cone at the factory) Still quite harsh sounding, a bit more bottom but not tight - just boomy.

I then gave the head a full service,  just to be sure. One day the ´speaker man`came by our rehearsal room, and took a look at the speaker cab. He asked if I had removed the dampening, but there never was any.
Installing dampening made a huge difference, took care of the `unnatural´ sounds and boom.

When I one day finally got the 115RH cab I´ve been looking for , well - forever, I was glad to see it had the original EVM15L speaker. But it was blown. I reconed it with a kit from soundspeaker repair in U.S., 400w 8ohm.
I dampened this cab too, and put large rubber feet on both cabs. And the results was great, one of the sweetest sounds heard in ages for me! Really tight lows/low mids, punchy, not boomy, quick responding, great!

Now mind you I have modified mine quite a bit (changed the horn length/throat area and some stuffing) ... It's closer to a back loaded horn now (smaller throat cross section makes for more of a compression chamber, if you lay the cab with the horn mouth on the floor as I do (vs on the side as in the pics above) then you effectively increase the horn length (kinda like a corner horn, but not as good).

Even stock though I never found these things rattley.  Quite the contrary, rather solid and reasonably well-braced.  The stock speakers just blew goats (unless you were playing guitar as we've both already implied).  I would be willing to bet that the perceived rattle is actually just the shitty stock drivers (not the optional EV upgrade) distorting and farting out at volume (admittedly, I never really turned it up that loud with the stock speaker due to this very issue, but I have with the EV I replaced it with).  I have castors on mine (only 2 not 4, kind of tilt and go - I never have to roll it very far) and they don't rattle when playing either (don't get the swivel kind, unless removable, because yeah, those will dance all over the place on any bass cab - I just have the straight non-turning ones.... even better get/make a dolly for the cab).  Another thing is to put proper rubber feet on it (as you say later in your post) - the stock ones (or at least the ones that were there on mine) are hilariously undersized and hardened from age - useless (I recomend these: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=260-770 solid rubber vs hollow and have a metal washer embedded in screw hole - bulletproof).

The bit of stuffing I added probably helps with internal resonances a bit, and it's nice to hear that speaker designers are recomending that too (you're actually not supposed to stuff reflex cabinets, rather just line the interior walls, but then again, this isn't a straight up reflex cabinet, and after the mods I have made, I'm not exactly sure what it is now; don't care cause it's awesome).

So yeah, pretty much the same experience over here.  The point being that the cab is bloody solid and a good design, just old and in need of some love and tuning to one's particular taste (e.g. a local bassist bought the stock driver off me because he likes that sort of Kinks farty sound; slashing the speaker cones pretty much has a very similar effect to using an underrated speaker, or in this case, a light guitar cone for bass use - the cone buckles under the strain causing that farty distortion... I think that dude uses an Ampeg V4 or something with just that speaker in and undersized sealed, Univox, I think, cab I also sold him - a horrible rig on paper, but in the context of his band it just works).