Dear Connecticut...

[patman]

While there may be exceptions...a gun in the home is statistically much more likely to be the means of an unintended death or suicide of a loved one than provide protection to the home's occupants.

In this way it makes as much sense to go to the casino to try and earn a living.  Probabilities are against you.

[Dave W]

No matter what CNN and the other presstitutes say now, the official story put out by the state police was that pistols were discovered with Lanza's body. The Bushmaster was in the car. The story now being repeated by the press is false. Of course he could have used a single shot pistol or rifle and still killed as many in almost as short a time in a gun-free zone.

[gweimer]

While there may be exceptions...a gun in the home is statistically much more likely to be the means of an unintended death or suicide of a loved one than provide protection to the home's occupants.

In this way it makes as much sense to go to the casino to try and earn a living.  Probabilities are against you.

Agreed.  And a few of us have voiced the opinion that it's not the weapons that are at issue, but the ease in which they can be used to kill.  People who kill, or intend to use weapons in their chosen life will more likely have identified and specific targets.  It's the random people that we should fear the most.  And I don't object to making it difficult, personal, and physical for the random act of killing to take place.  I think the surge of gun sales to inexperienced owners and those who might never have considered owning a gun until recently will eventually resurface in an occasional news story.

[Pilgrim]

What Mark says, my sentiments exactly.

Fair enough, but the posts above explain fairly clearly that the US is a different society with a different set of laws and constitutional rights.  There is no willingness to move to a status similar to that overseas.

[Aussie Mark]

The posts above explain fairly clearly that the US is a different society with a different set of laws and constitutional rights.

The US may be different, but that doesn't mean things can't be improved - look at US banking regulations, for example.  They were close to world's worst practice, not best practice.

I don't understand why Americans are happy to facilitate Americans killing Americans rapidly and in large quantities?  More Americans are killed by Americans in America by guns than are killed by terrorists, yet the "war on terror" gets top billing.  I just can't fathom that.

[Pilgrim]

The US may be different, but that doesn't mean things can't be improved - look at US banking regulations, for example.  They were close to world's worst practice, not best practice.

Banking regulations were revised to accommodate the banks, not to actually solve the problems discovered after 2008.  Unfortunately there has been no real structural change in banking oversight.

I agree that things can be improved, but improvement does not mean radical change.  My assertion is that radical change is not possible given the constitution and the societal conditions and beliefs in the US.  Incremental change may be possible.

[drbassman]

Egads, banking now?  Geez.  We can't do anything right.

[uwe]

No matter what CNN and the other presstitutes say now, the official story put out by the state police was that pistols were discovered with Lanza's body. The Bushmaster was in the car. The story now being repeated by the press is false. Of course he could have used a single shot pistol or rifle and still killed as many in almost as short a time in a gun-free zone.

Dave, be reasonable and un-conspirationist for once! It might fit into your current worldview of the media being to blame for anything, but no reputable media left or right backs your assertion that the Bushmaster was not used. You're beginning to sound like the guys who believe that the moon landing was a hoax.

If your Sandy Hook assertion were even remotely true, the Bushmaster manufacturer would have long sent out cease and desist orders to people/media claiming the untruth and smearing its innocent product. Nor would the private equity investor behind them - Cerberus - be selling its stake. Double-nor would the NRA just stand there doing nothing while a story about an assault weapon is being fabricated. "The official story" went out while the policemen themselves were still shaken by what had happened. No surviving eye witness has testified that he used hand guns. That at least one hand gun would be close to his body is inevitable given that he shot himself with it (and kept the other one as a spare, he had no intention of going to jail). And I won't even go into why young Lanza should have kept the Bushmaster and its cartridges in the trunk while murdering with the hand guns.

You seem to be the only person not only doubting, but categorically ruling out that the Bushmaster was used while the rest of the world assumes and reports otherwise. Think about it. You have zilch evidence except an initial hurried report while people were still cleaning up the site and it is generally you here who demands scientific proof and frowns at revisionism.

I understand that the police reports are still under a 90 day seal (as the judge ordered in December), let's wait and see.

[Dave W]

Dave, be reasonable and un-conspirationist for once! It might fit into your current worldview of the media being to blame for anything, but no reputable media left or right backs your assertion that the Bushmaster was not used. You're beginning to sound like the guys who believe that the moon landing was a hoax.

If your Sandy Hook assertion were even remotely true, the Bushmaster manufacturer would have long sent out cease and desist orders to people/media claiming the untruth and smearing its innocent product. Nor would the private equity investor behind them - Cerberus - be selling its stake. Double-nor would the NRA just stand there doing nothing while a story about an assault weapon is being fabricated. "The official story" went out while the policemen themselves were still shaken by what had happened. No surviving eye witness has testified that he used hand guns. That at least one hand gun would be close to his body is inevitable given that he shot himself with it (and kept the other one as a spare, he had no intention of going to jail). And I won't even go into why young Lanza should have kept the Bushmaster and its cartridges in the trunk while murdering with the hand guns.

You seem to be the only person not only doubting, but categorically ruling out that the Bushmaster was used while the rest of the world assumes and reports otherwise. Think about it. You have zilch evidence except an initial hurried report while people were still cleaning up the site and it is generally you here who demands scientific proof and frowns at revisionism.

I understand that the police reports are still under a 90 day seal (as the judge ordered in December), let's wait and see.

You live in a sheltered world if you think that I'm the only one categorically rejecting it.

Bushmaster's sales are through the roof. They don't need to do anything.

It's understandable that there are conflicting reports at first when something like this happens. But when apparent inconsistencies are not resolved and an "official" story emerges along with a instant, constant drumbeat by the major media for gun control, you have to start questioning why the inconsistencies disappear down the memory hole. The state police have certain things under seal, but that would not stop the media from raising concerns if they were interested in discovering what really happened rather than pushing an agenda.

For example, a man in camouflage pants was marched out of the woods by police, in front of eyewitnesses. One eyewitness said, on camera, that the man said "I didn't do it." How would he know what had just happened? Who was he and why was he in the woods which were part of school property? The eyewitness said, "he's right over there in the front seat of that police car" yet apparently no camera ever focused on him, and no one explained why he would be in the front seat and not the back. There could be a reasonable explanation for all this, but when the incident is officially disappeared, it makes one suspect that there's more to the story, like possibly more than one shooter.

How did the shooter get in? We heard he was buzzed in, then we heard he shot his way in. The latter is more believable, yet with all the photos and news coverage, we have no photos of the point of entry. And while the 911 calls came in as soon as he started shooting people, no one heard the commotion when he shot is way in. That's more than odd.

What about "Robbie Parker" -- that father who gave the emotional statement about the death of his daughter? No need to link here, but you can find video of him leading up to the statement. He's laughing and joking with the other people on the set, then when they get ready for him, he smiles and says "read the card?" then changes his face and voice into expressions of grief. If your six-year-old daughter had just been shot to pieces, would any of you be yukking it up off camera? Was he really a parent of a victim, or a hired actor?

There's more but I'm about done with the subject. I don't have answers, only questions. Whatever the answers are, they are being suppressed. And the longer they are suppressed, the more likely it is that the official version of events is untrue in a significant way.

[drbassman]

+1 Dave.  Anyone who thinks we have the correct info on this just doesn't understand the colossal incompetence of the US media.

[Pilgrim]

I'm bored now.   

[uwe]

Ok, I rest my case, you guys need guns. Lots and lots more of them. You have a tyrannical government that staged Sandy Hook with actors to take your Second Amendment toys away. Rise up against it now before it is too late!  

I have no idea how I would react if my son was shot, whether I would cry, scream, still be able to laugh about something in one second and be totally dejected in another. Herr Parker might have been on an anti-depressant for all we know. I would probably need one too if my children were hurt or killed.

You guys hole up so much in your conspiracy paranoia that your perception of reality becomes warped. A person laughing or smiling for a few seconds because he might have been absent-minded for a moment or because his mind is battling to displace a reality to hard to bear, is now evidence for a gigantic cover-up. Aren't you getting carried away in your "government and the media manipulate us"-angst?

Culturally/anthropologically, I really wonder where this angst comes from. What absolutley horrible, forever confidence-shattering experience have you had with one of your governments in the last 200 years to warrant this conspiracy craze bordering on the psychotic? Like all countries you've had good and not so good governments, they have sometimes lied to you and done criminal things but you've never had an Adolf Hitler, a Josef Stalin or an Idi Amin. You got lucky so far.

I rate David Westheimer as a sane and intelligent as well as a rational man. But here he writes about actors crying on TV on the pay-roll of dark forces committed to some even darker agenda.  

[nofi]

some day i will explain in great detail what its like to a german citizen. 

[OldManC]

You guys

Respectfully Uwe, this is part of the problem with ever discussing anything having to do with America with non Americans attempting to "educate" us. Which one of 311,591,917 Americans is "you guys?" A few of us? All of us? Isn't that an awfully broad brush?

This is a topic on which you and I are never going to agree. I'm OK with that and I don't much mind it being insinuated that I'm either a nut or uncaring for holding to the views I have because I'm secure in why I hold them, but righteous indignation toward Americans by non Americans is one of the reasons we tend to disregard much of what you guys have to say when you lecture us. You go on about how young our country is as if you can call us whippersnappers in comparison to the wisdom non Americans have bestowed on them at birth by virtue of the advanced age of settlement in their own country. It doesn't work that way. The funny thing about that is that most of your countries have gone through any number of revolutions or  changes in governmental systems while we've been organized (for better or worse) under the same governing document since 1787. It's one which we put a lot of stock in, even when we argue amongst ourselves over what it actually means and says. Either way, it's ours.

Please don't mistake our federal government's ham fisted attempts at dictating world affairs with individual Americans' views on the subject (that's one of the reasons so many of us have so much disdain for them). Most of us don't really care what the laws are in Germany (unless or until they threaten us or our allies in some way). Other than discussing 70 year old history, have you seen one thread in this forum where an American has chastised you over German law or called on those laws to be changed? I haven't. But somehow our non American friends have no problem stepping in to tell us how we're doing it wrong on everything from guns and cars to the types of wrenches we use. That wouldn't nearly be so bad except that we are then lectured even further when we don't immediately agree with your view. Let's be friends over the many things we have in common and agree to disagree on the few we don't. Especially when (other than the wrenches) those points of disagreement will never impact each others' lives in any demonstrable way.

[drbassman]

+ 1 George and Dave.

21 pages of posts and "us Americans" are still enigmas.  The American culture and psyche will only change from within over a significant period of time.  All of the well-meaning urging to be like/adopt another culture, country, worldview, laws or government just doesn't have a significant impact in the short term. We're working on our cultural/societal decay in our own way and in our own good time.

Uwe, many of your thoughts/feelings aren't without merit, but you truly don't understand the influence the US media has over our ill-educated, uncurious citizens.  It's a national disgrace.  If they used the internet for exploring critical issues of the day rather than Facebooking, Tweeting, following celebrities and displaying their meaningless narcissistic existence via social media, we'd be much better off as a country and a culture.  Not all media activity, technology and progress moves a society forward.