Help with EBO combo - Nothing posted anywhere!?!

[OldGuy]

If you want a late 70s period authentic mod, stick a DiMarzio p-bass pup (cream colored) about where the cover/rest/useless metal thing sat in the middle. Do the rout with a hammer and a flat-head screwdriver, and pop a hole in it for a mini-toggle to series/parallel the p pup.  Then stick Schallers on it, and a Kiss sticker.  ROCK N ROLL!

Seriously, I have no idea for best placement, as they never sound that great on these.  You maybe have to raise the action and slide it around before routing, while hooked into and amp. Your ears will know.

No no no this is all wrong, all wrong;

1. Everybody knows you use a CHISEL to make the incisions!  You only use the flat-head to dig out the wood AFTER making the incisions with the chisel.
2.That "useless metal thing" you refer to is absolutely necessary as a training device.  It prevents you from playing at the bridge position which produces a horrible tone. I can personally attest to this.
3. DiMarzio pick ups?!?! Are you kidding me? Aren't they members of the mob?  Wait....they are sponsors aren't they...... Did I say mob?  I meant sob.  The pick ups produce such a beautiful glorious tone they make you sob.  I love them.
4. The Kiss thing is already handled.  My girlfriend is putting one on the top of the guitar with her black indelible lipstick.  I dunno, a little more artsy and sophisticated than some poster.  Says something.

Just so you know; Ya aint foolin anyone.  This is the Luther's section and everyone here knows that the devil is in the details!

[Dave W]

I can see that the p base pick up idea just isn't going to work. But I am fine with that as it looks like I can get some of the P-ish elements into the tone through other means.  It looks like its the Pitbull but I still am trying to get some idea of what a second mudbucker in the bridge position might sound like.  There are alot of those around.  Question: would you recommend the traditional P location for the PitBull?

I certainly wouldn't put it any closer. John (Barklessdog) would be the expert on this since he used a Pitbull on his.

If you use a second mudbucker you aren't going to get anything like P thump. They don't have that kind of frequency curve.

[OldGuy]

Definitely gives you old thump. It's also a very versatile set up, blending the two pickups & the split coil option & where you play on the strings. Wiring the Big D was easy with one wire going to the pot & the other to the jack. I must warn you however, that with the BigD it gives you noise & pops switching between settings & also has large volume drops / increases. It is also not a true choke varitone but a series of capacitors. Still I really like using it.

Wow! I just had an interesting exchange.  Called Rio Grande to order the Pitbull and the owner was absolutely adamant that using his pickups in an EB anything was a complete waste of time.  Said it was true of any short scale bass.  They had no useful resonance, could not produce a useful consistent tone and would ultimately be a complete disappointment.   He also felt the mudbucker was useless in the neck position on any guitar.  I must say I always enjoy talking with someone with very decisive opinions even if I ultimately decide to stay the course in spite of them. I have some extensive ideas about how to wire it in so am going to proceed and order the Pitbull.  I will let you know how the finished product turns out (ps  he doesnt feel the PitBull should be employed in the Traditional P base location - he envisions it as a bridge pick up)

[eb2]

adamant that using his pickups in an EB anything was a complete waste of time.  Said it was true of any short scale bass.  They had no useful resonance, could not produce a useful consistent tone and would ultimately be a complete disappointment.   He also felt the mudbucker was useless in the neck position on any guitar.

Wow.  I can't believe a guitar guy would think that. Or anyone.  Never heard stuff like that. Wow. I am speechless.  Maybe he thinks that Fender long scale basses are the only basses that sound good.  That would be odd.

[chromium]

any short scale bass...complete waste of time...no useful resonance...complete disappointment...

Have to say that I rather enjoy a complete disappointment every now and then  




Don't rule out the mudbucker itself as a source of this classic thump you speak of.  An EQ notch on the massive sub-lows works wonders, and you could always experiment with series(stock)/parallel wiring of the mudbucker's coils.  Parallel mode makes it less of an earth mover, and gives out a nice classic tone.

http://www.hillscloud.com/2011/06/1969-gibson-eb-0-pickup-coil-tap-and-series-parallel-modification/


I loved the tones I got from that EB-0.  Sometimes short and simple is best  

[Dave W]

Wow! I just had an interesting exchange.  Called Rio Grande to order the Pitbull and the owner was absolutely adamant that using his pickups in an EB anything was a complete waste of time.  Said it was true of any short scale bass.  They had no useful resonance, could not produce a useful consistent tone and would ultimately be a complete disappointment.   ...

I'd guess you talked to Dave Wintz, owner of Robin Guitars, who handle Rio Grande. I can imagine Dave saying that.

I believe the pickups were designed by Bart Wittrock of Rockin' Robin Guitars (retail store).

Whoever you talked to, maybe John ought to send him some sound clips.

[OldGuy]

I'd guess you talked to Dave Wintz, owner of Robin Guitars, who handle Rio Grande. I can imagine Dave saying that.

I believe the pickups were designed by Bart Wittrock of Rockin' Robin Guitars (retail store).

Whoever you talked to, maybe John ought to send him some sound clips.

I didn't get his name.  I called the number on the website after I found that the local dealers in Colorado were defunct.  The first time I got a recorded message.  The second time I got him live as he was on his way to pick up his daughter.  As I say he was very direct.  Called the mudbuckers "Hooters" and felt the EB0 was useless except for a beginners bass as in 12 year old.  He said it was so bad I could never use it as a player no matter what mods I did to it including adding the Pitbull.  He strongly recommended I sell it for a couple of hundred and get a real bass (as in full scale) or put it on the wall as a decoration.  He said even the cheap imitation fender copies would serve me better.  It was a fairly firm lecture and I was bemused at how strident he was.  But he wasn't intentionally being insulting.  He was truly trying to direct me based on his beliefs.  I don't want to mis-characterize that.  It was his being honest to his beliefs and sincere in presenting them.

[OldGuy]

Have to say that I rather enjoy a complete disappointment every now and then  




Don't rule out the mudbucker itself as a source of this classic thump you speak of.  An EQ notch on the massive sub-lows works wonders, and you could always experiment with series(stock)/parallel wiring of the mudbucker's coils.  Parallel mode makes it less of an earth mover, and gives out a nice classic tone.

http://www.hillscloud.com/2011/06/1969-gibson-eb-0-pickup-coil-tap-and-series-parallel-modification/


I loved the tones I got from that EB-0.  Sometimes short and simple is best  

Chromium!  I have printed off several of your topics including your "EB-2 triple by pass" and your "Breaking up is hard to do".  I was intending on doing the split on the mudbucker for the EB-0 and I am in the process of putting together a separate wiring harness for my EB-3 right now that includes your bypass.  You referenced the EQ notch and I searched on it but could not find a reference post. Any direction you could give me would be much appreciated.   I also was wondering whether there was a way to add a potentiometer to the inductor circuit so as to be able to attenuate the bass bleed at the lower frequencies.  I posted a schematic elsewhere but got no comments as to whether or not the design was viable.  I am just starting to get my arms around all of the "black magic" of analog circuits.  I have a whole lot to learn about it but the subject is incredibly interesting and engaging.  You and Barklessdog have had a major influence thus far in the way I am approaching this project.

Final question:  I see you have a recording bass in your photo - About a month ago I got a lead on a pristine 76 for next to nothing way up in Wyoming which I bought.  It is heavier than a broken heart and much more treble than I thought it would be.  What is your opinion of it as a player?

[uwe]

I didn't get his name.  I called the number on the website after I found that the local dealers in Colorado were defunct.  The first time I got a recorded message.  The second time I got him live as he was on his way to pick up his daughter.  As I say he was very direct.  Called the mudbuckers "Hooters" and felt the EB0 was useless except for a beginners bass as in 12 year old.  He said it was so bad I could never use it as a player no matter what mods I did to it including adding the Pitbull.  He strongly recommended I sell it for a couple of hundred and get a real bass (as in full scale) or put it on the wall as a decoration.  He said even the cheap imitation fender copies would serve me better.  It was a fairly firm lecture and I was bemused at how strident he was.  But he wasn't intentionally being insulting.  He was truly trying to direct me based on his beliefs.  I don't want to mis-characterize that.  It was his being honest to his beliefs and sincere in presenting them.

Ok, the guy is a radical, and why not, in small doses they are entertaining. According to him all Jack Bruce recordings with Cream and most of Paul McCartney with the Beatles must therefore be commited to the garbage bin because they played instruments you couldn't ever get to sound right - interesting theory I must say.

I have no doubt that adding an additional pup on a Gibson EB will make some kind of sense if you don't exactly put it behind the neck where it would still be clearer than a mudbucker, but far from Fender focus, or too close to the bridge where it would quickly sound brittle if perhaps not as nasty as the original minbuckers. Anywhere in the "middle" should be fine though. That won't turn your EB into a Fender - thank God! - but it will certainly give it some more higher midrange raunch it otherwise lacks and help you be heard.

I've put the stacked humbucker mock JB pup from an RD Standard on a seventies EB-0 (in addition to the muddy and pretty much to the bridge because with a seventies EB you already have the mudbucker in the middle) and it has bettered the bass' focus and attack no end, making it even sound a little Ric'ish in the process (the mix of deep lows and prominent treble bite).

[Barklessdog]

Wow! I just had an interesting exchange.  Called Rio Grande to order the Pitbull and the owner was absolutely adamant that using his pickups in an EB anything was a complete waste of time.  Said it was true of any short scale bass.  They had no useful resonance, could not produce a useful consistent tone and would ultimately be a complete disappointment.   He also felt the mudbucker was useless in the neck position on any guitar.  I must say I always enjoy talking with someone with very decisive opinions even if I ultimately decide to stay the course in spite of them. I have some extensive ideas about how to wire it in so am going to proceed and order the Pitbull.  I will let you know how the finished product turns out (ps  he doesnt feel the PitBull should be employed in the Traditional P base location - he envisions it as a bridge pick up)

Wow, when I bought my pickup years ago I called them & had the exact opposite conversation. He talked me into using one as he thought it was a perfect match to a mudbucker to balance the woof. Both being highoutput picks. The pit bull gives the treble bite to woof. A very nice guy, of coarse I do not remember his name.

[Dave W]

Must have been Dave Wintz. It's been many years, probably about 15 years, but I do remember him telling me how he was definitely not a fan.

Though he's entitled to his opinions, that kind of talk sure isn't a good way to run a business.

[Barklessdog]

I remember calling Warmoth a long time asking them if they would build me a mahogany full scale bass neck. The guy belitttled me, saying that mahogany is bad choice for a neck wood & too brittle. Basically saying you mcan't make bass necks out of mahogany. I told them about Gibson doing it for years & he just blew me off. Guy was a total ass, was a "know it all" comic book guy. You meet the same types at our Hobby store.

[chromium]

You referenced the EQ notch and I searched on it but could not find a reference post. Any direction you could give me would be much appreciated.   I also was wondering whether there was a way to add a potentiometer to the inductor circuit so as to be able to attenuate the bass bleed at the lower frequencies.  I posted a schematic elsewhere but got no comments as to whether or not the design was viable.

Final question:  I see you have a recording bass in your photo - About a month ago I got a lead on a pristine 76 for next to nothing way up in Wyoming which I bought.  It is heavier than a broken heart and much more treble than I thought it would be.  What is your opinion of it as a player?

I just use an equalizer to cut frequencies at ~30Hz, rolling off anything in the ultra-low bass range (low-shelf EQ).  That was a little trick that someone else here had shared, and it made a huge difference in live sound of those basses.  I've been using SVT cabs, and it seemed like the 10" drivers struggle a bit trying to reproduce all the heavy lows from the mudbucker.  They seem to be able to render the more useful frequencies more effectively when the sub-lows are cut.

Take a peek at schematics for the L6-S, Howard Roberts, (and probably others) with regard to the variable inductor/capacitor filters.  Similar to what they did there, you could use a pot to govern the amount of filtered tone on an EB.  I've never experimented with that, and would enjoy hearing the results of it if you do!

That Triumph (recording) is probably my favorite short scale bass at this point.  They are heavy!  Mine's around 10.5 lbs,  but the weight distribution (all in the body) makes it hang nice while standing and doesn't make the strap gouge into my shoulder.  I can do a 4-hour gig with it and it doesn't bug me.  Bought that bass from a fellow in Texas who got it new in 1973, played it in a band for two years... band broke up, and bass when into the closet.  Its a real time capsule piece! (well, aside from a few dings I've managed to give it  ).  It can be trebly if you want it to be, but I've found that I can dial in everything from the EB-ish boom on up.  There's a really gusty middle-ground that I love and that's how I usually leave it set.

[chromium]

Oh, and I've bought from the guy at Rio Grande and had a good conversation as well.  I bought a Pitbull for an Ampeg AEB (great pickup), and he seemed to get a kick out of that.  Said he had retrofitted one before.  Nice guy.  Always funny to hear people's polarized opinions on short scales, though.  I just think they're fun to play and make some cool sounds.  I like 'em all shapes and sizes.

[Dave W]

I remember calling Warmoth a long time asking them if they would build me a mahogany full scale bass neck. The guy belitttled me, saying that mahogany is bad choice for a neck wood & too brittle. Basically saying you mcan't make bass necks out of mahogany. I told them about Gibson doing it for years & he just blew me off. Guy was a total ass, was a "know it all" comic book guy. You meet the same types at our Hobby store.

Yep. I had the same experience with them long ago.