AVATAR shoulda WON!!! WTF??

[uwe]

Only the biplane that sunk it looked like it was from WW I so you're forgiven! 



And the HMS Hood was an elderly lady from WW I too (or at least WW I technology).

Ah, the folly of man, one little biplane did what the Royal Navy could not ...

[Barklessdog]

One of my favorites was the one about the Flying Tigers in China. Also a movie about de Havilland Mosquitos.

My biggest complaint about Patton & other 60-70's war movies was the use of allied equipment for the axis. Patton Tanks as German Tigers was a horrible as a child.

[Highlander]

Also a movie about de Havilland Mosquitos.

Was that "633 Squadron"...?

Ah, the folly of man, one little biplane did what the Royal Navy could not ...

Ah... the good ol' "Stringbag"... they were from Ark Royal iirc...? long time since I've seen the film...

You really do need to see Patton

I will do my utmost best, Ma'am, but I'm not so sure about the "Enema Below..." (The Seattle Enema Bandit, I heard she's on the loose...) 

[eb2]

Patton Tanks as German Tigers

Amen.  Nothing took the piss out of Battle Of The Bulge quicker than that.  You'd have thought they could have dressed them up with some plywood to fake it better.

It almost ruined the Robert Shaw serenade.  A lovely and catchy number called Panzerlied.

Wenn vor uns ein feindliches
Heer dann erscheint
Wird Vollgas gegeben
Und ran an den Feind!
Was gilt denn unser Leben
Für unsres Reiches Heer?
Ja Reiches Heer?
Für Deutschland zu sterben
Ist uns höchste Ehr.

CHOCOLATE CAKE!  FROM BOSTON!

[TBird1958]

 

I recall a line in that movie to the effect of "Even if we lose the war, we're still the best toymakers"

[OldManC]

It's a testament to George C. Scott's superior acting abilities that I was shocked later in life to find that he was the polar opposite of Patton in temperament, politics, and world outlook. It was really hard at first to square that guy with the badass that starred in Patton.

Big props to Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence. Great movie.

[Pilgrim]

I dimly remember seeing Sink The Bismarck when it came out (1960).   I remember it as being a powerful film, but memory after 50 years is understandably dim.

I mentioned Guns of Navarone earlier - IMO a great Alistair MacLean novel, well adapted and making a great and well-cast film which is now almost forgotten.

[uwe]

Amen.  Nothing took the piss out of Battle Of The Bulge quicker than that.  You'd have thought they could have dressed them up with some plywood to fake it better.

It almost ruined the Robert Shaw serenade.  A lovely and catchy number called Panzerlied.

Wenn vor uns ein feindliches
Heer dann erscheint
Wird Vollgas gegeben
Und ran an den Feind!
Was gilt denn unser Leben
Für unsres Reiches Heer?
Ja Reiches Heer?
Für Deutschland zu sterben
Ist uns höchste Ehr.

CHOCOLATE CAKE!  FROM BOSTON!

I am impressed with your knowledge of German poetry!  

Yes, that was embarrassing, using Patton tanks as Tigers and Panthers.   Spielberg at least dug out a low-profile, fixed turret Jagdpanther or Jagdtiger for Sgt Ryan (they were cheaper and quicker to build than their turreted cousins which was crucual due to wartime Germany's dearth of resources in 1944). The US war machine had many qualities and abilities, building a decent tank wasn't among them though. So really ... Pattons as Tigers was adding insult to injury.  

[eb2]

I am impressed with your knowledge of German poetry!

Aww, merely cut and paste.  I have known about the lyrics for ages, but don't remember them.  I have known the tune since I was 6 years old though.  There was a period of time after they showed it on TV one night that we would line up in the school hall in the afternoon for recess, then one kid would start stomping his feet.  The next thing you would have a bunch of kids trying to sing the song.  The tune was right, but it sounded like a cross between the Hitler Youth and Sid Caesar.

I was even more impressed by the motorcycle/halftrack.  When Sgt Ryan first came out, the local radio must have spent a couple of hours talking about the motorcycle alone, and there were a couple of guys who have them.  Apparently it was a popular surplus item in the 50's.

I suppose that is the problem with making a war film set in Europe.  Finding a Sherman is easy.  Seeing a Patton posing as a German tank is horrible. 

I have no worries for the Pacific other than what Tom Hanks will say next.  Most people wouldn't know a Japanese tank from anything.  If they even have them, they will probably dress up a Stuart.

[uwe]

I just learned three things:

1. We've collectively and most likely posthumously promoted the saved Private Ryan to Sgt. Ryan!  

2. Two "Tigers" were involved, a turretless Jagdtiger and a turreted Tiger I (the Kingtigers only came out around end of 44, but if you ask me the Jagdtiger might have been a bit early for Normandy too as he was built on a Kingtiger chassis).

3. Spielberg lied to us as well, but he did a better job than the director of The Battle of the Bulge. The Tigers in Private Ryan are - wait for it! - T-34s!!!  

"The two Tiger tanks featured in Saving Private Ryan are reproductions built on the chassis of Russian T-34 tanks. Operational Tiger I's are extremely rare, and could not have been used for rigorous film production, let alone a movie in which the plot requires one of them to be destroyed.

The T-34 was chosen because of its overall size and barrel height. The reproductions were based on measurements taken of a Tiger I at the Tank Museum in Bovington, England, and were constructed by Plus Film Services. The upper hull and turret were sized to proportionally match the chassis of the T-34. Band of Brothers, the HBO mini-series produced by Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks, used a similar construction process to recreate Tiger I tanks out of readily available T-34s."

But that is at least not an insult. The T-34 was a mighty fine tank, durable, well-armoured, but not too heavy, excellent fire power and much quicker bolted together than any German tank. The Russians, which in the twenties and early thirties had secretly produced German tanks (helping Germany circumvent the Versailles Treaty which disallowed tank production), had obviously kept a few plans and some experience when they began designing the T-34 (which was superior to any German or otherwise Allied tank when it was introduced).   So I can live with dressed-up Russkies pretending to be German Panzers!  

[eb2]

Well, then I have an added level of admiration for Lt Col Ryan.  T-34s modded to be look-alike Tigers is fine by me.  What would have been even better, and added realism, is a T-34 with a couple of crosses added so it would have been a captured T-34.  The Panzer crews and I probably would have preferred a Panther, but they loved their fleets of captured T-34s.  Helluva good tank. 

Didn't we have the vids of the T-34 being hauled out of a bog in Poland or Russia on the old Dude Pit?  When it came out it had German crosses on the turret.  Fantastic.

[uwe]

Known users of captured T-34/76 tanks were numerous along with many unrecorded ones. For example on October 15th of 1941, 1st Panzer Division's 1st Panzer Regiment had some 6 T-34/76 Model 1940 and 1941 tanks. Along with 1st Panzer Division, T-34/76 tanks were in service with 2nd Panzer Division, 9th Panzer Division (33rd Panzer Regiment), 10th Panzer Division (7th Panzer Regiment), 11th Panzer Division, 20th Panzer Division (21st Panzer Regiment) and 23rd Panzer Division. Number of T-34/76 tanks was still in service in 1945, for example with 23rd Panzer Division in Slovakia and East Prussia. Along with Panzer Divisions, number was used by 18th Panzergrenadier Division and 98th Infantry Division. In the summer of 1943, few captured T-34/76 tanks were even operated by Italian crews. According to original German captured tank inventories as of July of 1943 there were 28 T-34(r) as part of Army Group South and 22 as part of Army Group Center.For example from July 10th to July 14th of 1943, 6th Panzer Division operated 2 captured T-34 tanks. In September of 1943, "RONA" (Russian Army of Liberation) commanded by Mieczyslaw Kaminski operated some 24 captured T-34/76 tanks against Soviet partisans in Byelorussia. T-34/76 was held in high regard and also elite units such as Panzergrenadier Division "Grossdeutschland" (Panzer Regiment "Grossdeutschland") used some captured examples as late as 1945.


Waffen-SS units also did not hesitate to use captured T-34/76 tanks and 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich" and 3rd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf" pressed significant number into service. T-34/76 tanks used by "Das Reich" are of particular interest. When in March of 1943, SS Panzer Corps recaptured Kharkov, some 50 various models of T-34/76 tank were captured. All of those were being repaired in a local tractor (tank) factory that was overrun and designated as SS Panzerwerk (SS Tank Workshop). Shortly after they were repaired along with being modified to German standards, repainted and marked with German markings. Modifications included installation of commander's cupola (from damaged Panzerkampfwagen III and IV tanks), Schuerzen (armor skirts) and other equipment such as Notek light, storage boxes, tools, radio equipment and antenna. 25 of them entered service with newly created 3rd SS Panzer Battalion of 2nd SS Panzer Regiment of 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich".


And it's not like the Allies did not return the favor ...

Russian comrades celebrating their new Panthers:




Amerikaner experiencing what it is like to drive a real tank:



No doubt, the advertising slogan of a US oil company of "putting a Tiger in your tank" had its origins here. 

[Aussie Mark]

Now that we're headed to Russia, what did people think of Enemy At The Gates, where Jude Law plays a Russki sniper racking up Gereman officer kills in Stalingrad and Ed Harris plays a German sharpshooter trying to hunt him down.  Includes a sex in public scene with Rachel Weiss, where Jude and Rachel get it on with 20 or 30 other Russian soldiers asleep on the floor next to them.

The Stalingrad set was very well done, and it has a good level of suspense.  Ed Harris did a good job on his character.

[Pilgrim]

Excellent thought!

Enemy at the Gates was stunning - it conveyed an incredible sense of the way the Soviets fed men into the grinder and just kept doing so while shredded bodies fell by the wayside.  A very powerful bu unfortunately underrated movie.  Both Jude Law and Ed Harris did top-notch jobs, and it was very interesting to see Bob Hoskins as Nikita Khrushchev.  I saw Nikita K on TV as a young man, and it never occurred to me that earlier in life he was very much under pressure to perform as a military commander.

[eb2]

While we are following General Patton's hoped-for 1946 campaign eastward, I am amshamed to have intially overlooked one of my all time favorite war flicks.  I guess in the WWII spirit I tend to think of the friendly Chinese of 30 Seconds Over Tokyo instead of the dreaded Chicoms who brought us the Chosin Resevoir Massacre. So I have to give my nod to a fantastic war movie, Pork Chop Hill.  Nothing says I hate you like smoking a cigarette and slowly removing your translator headphones.