Some Ric Porn for you: 4003S/5 and 4003S/8

[uwe]

They certainly make me feel better! The bass has been stable since the operation, I even had to raise action a little and relieve the neck somewhat too as the summer temperatures rose. It used to be: tighter and lower before the operation, I'd set up the bass, play it, put it away and four weeks later it was back to being a banana. And I now have strings with more pull than ever.

[uwe]

Ooops, I just heard from my luthier that he made those replacement rods himself! More news as I get it!!!

Diameter is 5 mm, slightly less than 1/5" which is a manly diameter for a trussrod (and the Ric has two).

[Dave W]

3/16" = 4.76mm so if your luthier got 5mm rods into the channel, hopefully David can coax 3/16" rods in without having to remove the fretboard.

[ilan]

It took some drastic measures but I'm happy you managed to stabilize the neck in the end. How about a soundbite?

[uwe]

As he has now told me, he used these here, regular 3/16 rods, the 5mm was an approximation, don't ask why he stuck 7 mmm Ibanez truss rod nuts at the end though:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_rods/Adjustable_truss_rods/Traditional_Truss_Rod.html

[uwe]

It took some drastic measures but I'm happy you managed to stabilize the neck in the end. How about a soundbite?

I have no recording stuff, Ilan! Never been a home recorder, sorry. But I used it on a track with my old band Downing Beat and it is still on their site, the track is "Giving and Taking":

http://www.myspace.com/downingbeat

Sounds like a 4 string bass mostly and where it doesn't sound like that it sounds like a friggin guitar as in the verses where those ascending high parts are actually played by me not the guitars! 

[Dave W]

As he has now told me, he used these here, regular 3/16 rods, the 5mm was an approximation, don't ask why he stuck 7 mmm Ibanez truss rod nuts at the end though:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_rods/Adjustable_truss_rods/Traditional_Truss_Rod.html

Imperial inner diameter and metric outer diameter? It's good to know we still have some influence in metric-land.  

It might be that a 5/16 outer diameter nut would leave too little room to get a wrench around and turn. There may not be enough depth to the adjustment area under the truss rod cover.

Uwe: Now that you mention it, that was probably the reason as those 7 mm Ibanez truss rod nuts are very similar to the Ric ones, just a bit larger, but less in diameter than a Gibson bell nut would be.

[ilan]

Excellent bass sound and I also enjoyed the song, Uwe. I'm not sure though that without prior knowledge, I would have suspected this was an 8 string!

[uwe]

Thanks, Ilan, yeah, hard to hear as an 8-string, I just added a sentence to my original posting.

That is an effect you have with 8-strings, once other instruments and especially guitars join in, the 8 string effect is largely swallowed up and it doesn't sound like the intro of The Byrds' Mr. Tambourine Man or Tom Petty's American Girl anymore! That said, I'm not automatically able to pick out a 12 string electric or acoustic guitar amidst other instruments in any song I hear either. Other people probably can.

[dminer]

Thanks for all of the info from everyone...I bought 2 - 3/16" solid steel rods from lowes today and I'll proceed with my experiment...I'll still have to do the threads and find an appropriate nut that will fit in the headstock truss rod groove with a little room to spare for the nut driver. Would it be practical to try and thread the rods to rick nut specs or would that make the end of the rod too weak and prone to snapping? Just thinking out loud...any ideas on a source for the correct style but bigger rick style nuts? Thanks to all and wish me luck. David

[Dave W]

Good luck!

Don't thread to Rick's specs, IMO that's asking for trouble at the very place you're exerting force.

If a standard 5/16 OD hex nut doesn't leave you quite enough room, it's always possible to grind down the sides of the hex. Or Uwe might be able to ask his luthier if he has any spares.

[uwe]

This guy offers Ibanez 7 mm truss rod nuts (and even 8 mm ones, but these might be too big):

http://www.ibanezrules.com/parts.htm#Parts

Look under "misc" pretty much at the end to find it, the part name is 4TRN007MM.


But possibly a Fender bullet nut might work too as the Ric cavity is long, just rather shallow:


http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Truss_rods/Adjusting_nuts.html

[dminer]

Hello all and hope your having a great new year. I thought I'd post an update to my earlier 4003s8 truss rod issue. Over the holidays I had a chance to work on my bass. This first picture shows the string heighth with full 8 string tension before the truss rods replacement. (sorry for the lousy pic but you can still see the problem) the gap was a good 3/16"+ and the neck had a substantial bow.


This second picture shows the older rods. Much to my surprise they were already 3/16" rods that the previous owner had installed, although they used the original acorn nuts and coupling nuts so the rod had been threaded to the older, smaller size...also, the coupling nuts had been cut down to about half of their length.


This third pic shows where the previous owner had inset the bridge to try and lower the action.


I bought 2- 3/16" rods from lowes and the acorn and coupling nuts from ace and made the new rods using a 10-24(3/16") die to thread the rods and then installed the new rods...total cost, about $15 including the rods, nuts, washers,die and a new nut driver.


Now, I'm slowly adjusting the neck but it is almost perfectly flat and the action is within a 1/16" off of the fretboard. I might even have to raise the bridge a tad. Here is a picture of my s8 with her Rickenbacker sisters, a 66 4005 and a 76 4001



Thanks to everyone for their input and I'll be able to play this bass again. A special thanks to Uwe and Dave. Uwe for his great info and Dave for the suggestion to not re-thread to the original specs. Cheers and a great New Year to everyone! David

[Dave W]

Nicely done and most important, it worked.

Since it already had 3/16" rods, seems like the problem must have been not being able to apply enough force to move the rods enough. That's why I suggested not threading down to the Rick specs.

The problem with this type rod apparently is not the strength of the rod, but the way force is applied. Acoustic guitarmaker William Cumpiano used it in his guitarmaking book years ago but there were similar problems so he revised it to make the rod move the way it was intended to. Unfortunately you don't have room in a Rick to use his solution.

[uwe]

Good news! Man your 4003S/8 had issues just like mine! Wicked instruments they are.

Frankly, I think it was a irresponsible of Ric to bring these basses out the way they were. It cannot have escaped Ric that the string pull caused issues on many of these - expensive - basses if not on all. And rather than deleting the model quietly and keeping their mouths shut about it, they should have offered an after-market technical solution for the handful of people who actually committed the folly of buying one. I waited almost a year for mine (shortly before deletion of the model) and already upon arrival in the shop the neck showed that there would be issues.

A few strips of graphite would have gone a long way if Ric would have preferred to stick to their puny truss rods and that is not rocket science.

Uwe