Modding Gibson LPB-1

[gearHed289]

The pots and switch all have generic black dome knobs in them that use the side screws to hold them in place. I lose the ability to look at the switch to see where it is, but with only 6 positions one of which is wide open I don't see that as a problem.

Something I've done with those knobs to give a point of reference is to paint the set screw white.

[Dave W]

So, at the risk of sounding silly -

Are LP basses (with chrome TB+) wired in series or parallel?

Each humbucker's coils are wired in series. The two-pickup circuit is parallel.

[bassilisk]

Each humbucker's coils are wired in series. The two-pickup circuit is parallel.

Thanks Dave. I'm going to assume a TBird is the same.

Here's my story. Back in '03 I bought my LPB-2 which was loaded with Barts and a Bart pre. I was okay with it for a while but found myself wanting to go passive. At that time HB shapes for bass were pretty limited. I didn't want EMG's and there was very little review info on the Rio Grande Pitbull i.e. (Apparently they've come a long way).

Right around that time Gibson announced they would begin selling chrome TB+ pickups outboard. Great! I had an '02 TBird at this point and really liked its tone palette, meaning it could be a TBird wide open, and tamed down some for more traditional bass sounds.

I get a set and have my tech do the install. I'm pretty sure I used what the TBird had - Gibson 300k pots, 047 caps, wired VT-VT.

I just couldn't get it to sound like the TBIrd, meaning, it was a lot of grindy midrange without much latitude. Not really my cuppa.
Now, this all happened some years ago so exact details are furry. My gear at the time could've been a factor as well. Still, overall I wasn't happy, and that sucked because I really like this bass a lot. It plays so very evenly across the entire neck, and looks pretty good as well with the premium top.

Next option was to try and find the DiMarzio's that Kramers were using at the time (DP121 Model G). These still showed up periodically on ebay and I managed to snag a DiMarzio and a Schaller (basically identical). That's what I have in it now and there's not much difference from what I remember about the TB+. They are very hot and mid heavy, not "toneful" at all.

Now I'm ready to tackle the LP one more time. I made a buddy over at the Gibson forum who put some Alumitones in his LP. He has made several "Strat" Gibsons and wound up with an extra set. He likes them a lot - they are broad spectrum guitar pickups so they don't make a separate neck and bridge model. I will say they look cool as all getout.

This was why I asked about the TB+ - I might want to give them another go. I did see some LP models that went with chrome TB+ with a Bart preamp. Is this the same Bart pre that was used with the Bart pickups or another model?

Sorry for all the questions. This is clearly the only place I can finally get some answers, or at the very least, some good direction.
I've been waiting to ask these for, literally, years. I very much want to get the LP back on the road with regularity.

Much obliged in advance.

Any suggestions for maxing out their versatility?

[Dave W]

Funny, I've always thought the modern Thunderbirds sound midrange heavy, so I'm not surprised your LPB-2 sounded that way after you converted it to passive. There have been some changes to those pickups since the modern TBird was introduced 30 years ago, and the ones I've played were earlier models, so maybe that would explain the differences you heard in your '02 model. I can't compare it to the Dimarzio Model G, I've only heard one in a Kramer Duke many years ago. Maybe someone else can chime in.

All of the 90s LP basses had the Bart TCT preamp except for the 1992 LPB-1 which was passive.

The Lace Alumitone demos I've seen on YT sound good. Might be worth a try. Have you seen this demo video of the Alumitone Bassbars? I realize they're larger than the HB size, but worth a listen.

[bassilisk]

All of the 90s LP basses had the Bart TCT preamp except for the 1992 LPB-1 which was passive.

Now that is some information that would've been good to know.

Yes, the '02 TBird gave you mids, but it seemed more controllable, with more range. I thought I could get the LP to do the same thing. I still have the original guts so maybe putting the TCT back is the way to go at some point.

Having said that the Alumitones sound pretty good indeed. When I got these there weren't any bass models yet, but when my buddy spoke to them directly they said no worries, the range is so broad they'll accommodate basses without any issues. I believe they'll be my next project.

P.S. The Model G was a stab in the dark. Very few options in that size at the time so I gave them a shot. 

Thanks very much Dave. Valuable info much appreciated.

[uwe]

I have one of those Lace basses. The pups sound great, very much like described in that vid. It's a sound that immediately pleases your ears as a bassist.

[slinkp]

Interesting. My (passive) LPB-1 is my go-to recording bass for the past bunch of years. The only other bird-ish instrument I have is my Greco TB IV, which was my favorite bass for a couple years before I got the LPB.

One reason I prefer the LPB is that the mids on the Greco are kind of overwhelming.  That was what I liked about it at first - it has a ridiculously strong character that survives even the most aggressive "smile" EQ applied by dubiously qualified engineers.  But in the long run I've found it's a bit muddy for me, and the LPB-1 by contrast still has plenty of mids, and gets me the growl and bark that I like from a 'bird, but in a much more controlled and articulate way than the Greco.  But it's still pretty far from, say, a Jazz bass

I do really want to get my hands on something sounding a bit more like a 60s bird at some point, to see how well I like it. Like something with Thunderbuckers, since I will never be able to buy a real sixties bird. I haven't been able to compare directly, but my impression from recordings, online demos, etc. is that the actual sixties birds have more treble available than my Greco.

Also, I thought I had read here that passive LPB basses were also sold in '91? I could be totally wrong about that.

[OldManC]

I have one of those Lace basses. The pups sound great, very much like described in that vid. It's a sound that immediately pleases your ears as a bassist.

I really like the sound of that bass.

[Dave W]

I would think that the Alumitone HBs would be just as good for bass as for guitar. Likewise with the original Lace Sensors. The builder of Birdsong short scale basses offers a basic model with one pickup at the neck that's actually a Gold Lace Sensor Strat pickup.

[gearHed289]

Wow, those Bassbars sound great!

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I would think that the Alumitone HBs would be just as good for bass as for guitar. Likewise with the original Lace Sensors.

I don't know about their Strat pickups but I tried a set of their Precision pickups in my homemade ESP JPJ. They didn't last the day.

[Dave W]

I don't know about their Strat pickups but I tried a set of their Precision pickups in my homemade ESP JPJ. They didn't last the day.

That's all a matter of personal taste, isn't it? My point was that their guitar pickups are also suitable for use in basses. Not everyone will like the tone.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Maybe I should have elaborated more: the Lace Sensors had almost NO low end, even soloed, and sounded even worse when mixed with the Fender CS 63 Jazz pickups in there. The bass itself is ungodly bright because its body is about 20% bondo covered in car lacquer and what wood is there was most likely cheap alder, but the Jazz pickups sound as expected but just a smidge bright. I beat the hell out of my basses and play with medium high action. I still have the pickup somewhere.

[Dave W]

Maybe I should have elaborated more: the Lace Sensors had almost NO low end, even soloed, and sounded even worse when mixed with the Fender CS 63 Jazz pickups in there. The bass itself is ungodly bright because its body is about 20% bondo covered in car lacquer and what wood is there was most likely cheap alder, but the Jazz pickups sound as expected but just a smidge bright. I beat the hell out of my basses and play with medium high action. I still have the pickup somewhere.

Obviously you should have used nitro so that the bondo could breathe. And I'll bet you didn't use pre-CBS bondo either.