Of mudbuckers and magnets.

Alanko · July 13, 2016, 05:26:00 AM

I possibly have an Epiphone Rivoli in my not-too-distant future. In the past I've owned an Epiphone EB-0, and it seems that the criticism for both basses centres on the pickup. The EB-0 pickup had a DC resistance of only 12k or so, and was weak and uneven. I've seen the same said about the Rivoli pickup.

I used to have a couple of Artec sidewinders, but they were both killed in action unfortunately. From memory both had the magnets incorrectly mounted and one, if not both, had the coils wired incorrectly.

I've seen a mod mentioned on here that spreads the magnetic field of the Epi pickup using Allen keys or ferrous wire. My thought would be, could you not just chip the stock magnets off the pickup and replace them with neodymium block? I've seen this stuff on Ebay, available in various lengths and widths. Could you get away with using a single row of these magnets along the base of the pole pieces?

My second thought is, which matters more; the width of the pickup coils or the width of the magnets? Does the weak E string phenomenon stem from the string's excursion extending beyond the range of the magnets or beyond the range of the coils? If it is the former could I get away with taking a cheap, hot guitar pickup, removing the coils and transplanting these onto the metalwork of the Epi sidewinder in bid to hike the DC resistance of the pickup?

Apologies if these are silly questions or if I am missing a fundamental point somewhere along the line.

Granny Gremlin · July 13, 2016, 08:21:42 AM

Not the same pickup. Rivoli is a classic American Gibson mudbucker. Epi EB-0 is modern chinese mudbucker copy that's nothing like an actual mudbucker.

The Rivoli is essentially the exact same bass as the Gibson EB-2, but with a different neck profile I am told.

Alanko · July 13, 2016, 08:50:44 AM

The Rivoli pickup is topologically the same as a mudbucker, as far as I can tell. It was built in a sidewinder configuration. The difference must be in the magnets, gauge of wire, number of turns or some other geometry within the pickup.

Granny Gremlin · July 13, 2016, 10:14:56 AM

You mean Epi EBO pickup? Yes; an unfaithful repro. A Rivoli pup IS a mudbucker.

66Atlas · July 13, 2016, 11:27:51 AM

Original or reissue? Did they put a real mudbucker in the 90's reissues? I always assumed it was the same copy pickup they put in the EB0 but wont pretend to know.

Granny Gremlin · July 13, 2016, 12:41:22 PM

Oh right, there was a reissue of the Rivoli - completely forgot about that. No idea what was in those.

Dave W · July 13, 2016, 01:09:32 PM

The 90s Rivoili had the same pickup as the Epi EB-0.

I don't think the magnets have anything to do with the weak E and G problem that some have had. The allen key trick (or nail trick) simulates extending the coil width.

Basvarken · July 13, 2016, 01:21:00 PM

Does it?
I always thought it extended the magnetic field a little.
But I'm no expert.

Dave W · July 13, 2016, 01:37:57 PM

Yes, it extends the magnetic field. That's exactly what it does. But the coil is where the current is generated. It widens the area covered by the coil.

If you didn't use an allen key or nail, and just widened the magnets, that wouldn't solve the problem. The excursion of the E string would still go beyond the coil area and wouldn't generate the current.

Alanko · July 13, 2016, 02:48:49 PM

I don't understand how widening the magnetic field with a nail is different from widening the field with wider magnets?

I'm leaning towards a Model One now, or potentially seeing how much a custom pickup would cost. I don't even own this bass yet.

The EB0 pickup was beyond disappointing. I wanted something that was thumping, and it was anemic.

Pilgrim · July 13, 2016, 04:06:50 PM

I have a 60's mudbucker and an old Model One on my '64 EB-0. Both output plenty of sound and have real guts, but of course the mudbucker is a bit dirtier and louder than the Dimarzio. I think the Model One was developed as a replacement for the 'buckers, and it delivers pretty well.

lowend1 · July 13, 2016, 04:07:41 PM

Once you get past the blackness, the M1 is a pretty nice pickup. It does what it's supposed to.
My modded Epi EB-0:

Pilgrim · July 13, 2016, 04:10:30 PM

My dual pickup EB. The second rout was in there when I got it, so I filled it with a pickup.

Granny Gremlin · July 13, 2016, 04:22:40 PM

Just saying, but for the price of a Model 1 you can get an actual vintage mudbucker (more common too). Never used the Model 1, and if there's only a single pup in a bass, the mudbucker isn't the most versatile thing around.

exiledarchangel · July 13, 2016, 04:37:59 PM

Quote from: Alanko on July 13, 2016, 05:26:00 AM
I possibly have an Epiphone Rivoli in my not-too-distant future. In the past I've owned an Epiphone EB-0, and it seems that the criticism for both basses centres on the pickup. The EB-0 pickup had a DC resistance of only 12k or so, and was weak and uneven. I've seen the same said about the Rivoli pickup.

Epiphone EB-0 pickups have a DC of about 1.2K.

Quote from: Alanko on July 13, 2016, 05:26:00 AM
I used to have a couple of Artec sidewinders, but they were both killed in action unfortunately. From memory both had the magnets incorrectly mounted and one, if not both, had the coils wired incorrectly.

I've seen a mod mentioned on here that spreads the magnetic field of the Epi pickup using Allen keys or ferrous wire. My thought would be, could you not just chip the stock magnets off the pickup and replace them with neodymium block? I've seen this stuff on Ebay, available in various lengths and widths. Could you get away with using a single row of these magnets along the base of the pole pieces?

You could try that, I am not sure if it wouldn't work. The trick is to widen the field on the top side of the pickup, where the polepieces are.

Quote from: Alanko on July 13, 2016, 05:26:00 AM
My second thought is, which matters more; the width of the pickup coils or the width of the magnets? Does the weak E string phenomenon stem from the string's excursion extending beyond the range of the magnets or beyond the range of the coils? If it is the former could I get away with taking a cheap, hot guitar pickup, removing the coils and transplanting these onto the metalwork of the Epi sidewinder in bid to hike the DC resistance of the pickup?

Apologies if these are silly questions or if I am missing a fundamental point somewhere along the line.

Those are two different things, the shape of the coil has to do with the sonic character of the pickup, thin and tall coils tend to sound brighter than fat and short ones. The size of the magnet has to do with the strength of the magnetic field, bigger size = bigger field = more output.