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Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: Dave W on September 26, 2019, 08:17:32 PM

Title: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Dave W on September 26, 2019, 08:17:32 PM
From his FB page (https://www.facebook.com/jinjahbaker/photos/a.955727464451568/3039009789456648/?type=3&theater) yesterday: Announcement. Ginger is critically ill in hospital. Please keep him in your prayers. Thank you everyone
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on September 26, 2019, 11:28:26 PM
Thanks.  I didn't even know about that.  It sounds like he needs all the prayers he can get. 
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Grog on September 27, 2019, 08:16:52 AM
I thought he was older than he is, he's only 80.....
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Basvarken on September 27, 2019, 08:37:41 AM
With all the substance abuse during all those years, it's a miracle he even made it to 80.

Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on September 27, 2019, 11:46:24 AM
The ole grouser ...  8) Let's not lose him, but if his time has come, then let it be gentle. He is a wonderful drummer. For all his fame actually underrated. I wish we lived in a world where he had inspired more drummers and John Bonham less!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_txpe6Ie2Nk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npP320NxfLQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-QEpRgs9sM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP5BQ5Kvsv8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQHRamBvGi4
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on September 29, 2019, 03:48:29 PM
Ginger Baker, at this point, is hanging in there. 

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/creams-ginger-baker-is-holding-his-own-in-hospital/

Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Dave W on September 29, 2019, 11:32:24 PM
Quote from: westen44 on September 29, 2019, 03:48:29 PM
Ginger Baker, at this point, is hanging in there. 

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/creams-ginger-baker-is-holding-his-own-in-hospital/

"Baker, who gained a reputation as the most uncontrollable musician on the scene, was the subject of a 2013 documentary, "Beware Of Mr. Baker", which painted the title character as a chain-smoking, profanity-spewing, mean-spirited, entitled, grouchy, vile and self-destructive man with otherworldly talent and tragic flaws."

And those are his strong points!

FB update (https://www.facebook.com/jinjahbaker/photos/a.955727464451568/3046906842000276/?type=3&theater)
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: lowend1 on September 30, 2019, 08:49:24 AM
Quote from: uwe on September 27, 2019, 11:46:24 AMI wish we lived in a world where he had inspired more drummers and John Bonham less!

I think the number of drummers who were truly influenced by Bonham is far smaller than the number that say they were. It has always seemed to me that many consider beating the crap out of a drumset to be a legitimate homage to his memory, when his playing was far more nuanced than that. Led Zeppelin was unquestionably HIS vehicle - despite the appearance that Page or Plant was driving the bus, er, blimp.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: ilan on September 30, 2019, 08:59:16 AM
I hope he recovers fully and lives long enough to replace the drums track on Sunshine of Your Love, this time with the accents on 2 and 4 WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. It drives me crazy every time. He took a perfectly good song with a killer hook and made it impossible to listen to.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: slinkp on September 30, 2019, 09:18:15 AM
But that's what's cool about that song!
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: ilan on September 30, 2019, 09:23:17 AM
Quote from: slinkp on September 30, 2019, 09:18:15 AM
But that's what's cool about that song!

Yeah I don't know, Clapton's other drummers since then have all played it "normally" (at his request, I'm sure) and the song still has its magic, but without messing with your brain. Man, you get to play on one of the best hooks ever, don't steal its thunder, there will be other opportunities to show that you are the rhythmic genius that you think you are.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: gearHed289 on September 30, 2019, 09:48:53 AM
Quote from: lowend1 on September 30, 2019, 08:49:24 AMI think the number of drummers who were truly influenced by Bonham is far smaller than the number that say they were. It has always seemed to me that many consider beating the crap out of a drumset to be a legitimate homage to his memory, when his playing was far more nuanced than that.

Absolutely. That actually goes for Led Zeppelin as a whole.

Quote from: ilan on September 30, 2019, 08:59:16 AMI hope he recovers fully and lives long enough to replace the drums track on Sunshine of Your Love, this time with the accents on 2 and 4 WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. It drives me crazy every time. He took a perfectly good song with a killer hook and made it impossible to listen to.

I've played and sang that song plenty of times and it never bothered me. But then, I've played along to Alan White a lot too.  ;D

Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on September 30, 2019, 11:57:33 AM
Quote from: ilan on September 30, 2019, 08:59:16 AM
I hope he recovers fully and lives long enough to replace the drums track on Sunshine of Your Love, this time with the accents on 2 and 4 WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. It drives me crazy every time. He took a perfectly good song with a killer hook and made it impossible to listen to.


I've seen two versions of what happened with the song.  In one Ginger Baker said he thought the song needed a different tempo.  He came up with that particular drumbeat and liked the song after that.  In the other version, supposedly Tom Dowd requested that the song have a tribal drumbeat.  Whatever happened, it appears there were people involved who preferred that the song be that way. 
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Dave W on September 30, 2019, 10:51:38 PM
Quote from: ilan on September 30, 2019, 08:59:16 AM
I hope he recovers fully and lives long enough to replace the drums track on Sunshine of Your Love, this time with the accents on 2 and 4 WHERE THEY SHOULD BE. It drives me crazy every time. He took a perfectly good song with a killer hook and made it impossible to listen to.

Blasphemy!


https://youtu.be/FQ5YU_spBw0
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 01, 2019, 06:23:31 AM
I'm with Dave, that drum pattern makes the song - conventional drum patterns let it sound leaden in comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbqQL0J_Vr0

And that iconic Jack Bruce riff actually stands more out in Ginger's version than in any other:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stNqkmKCgyI

I never gave it a thought why the song sounds so different (in my ears: better) with Baker than with other drummers - now I know, danke, Ilan!

I've said this before, but Baker's drumming defies conventional rhythm section work and is more like an animated percussive discussion with the other music that is playing. That really makes him stand out among rock drummers.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Basvarken on October 06, 2019, 05:44:28 AM
He's gone now...

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/oct/06/ginger-baker-wild-and-brilliant-cream-drummer-dies-aged-80
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Highlander on October 06, 2019, 08:10:13 AM
That's the rythym section back together... rip... :sad:
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: TBird1958 on October 06, 2019, 08:25:50 AM


RIP Mr Baker, thank you for the great music! May you have many pleasant disagreements with Jack.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 06, 2019, 08:32:11 AM
Hey, redhead, with you it's not quite clear WHERE you will be going, but whether your new company will be feathered or horned, do teach them your uncanny paradiddles!

Thanks for making drums talk.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: tore00 on October 06, 2019, 10:36:03 AM
Thanks Ginger, I will never thank enough you and Jack for the greatest rhythmic section
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Dave W on October 06, 2019, 10:47:59 AM
RIP Ginger.

Maybe Ginger, Jack and Graham will reunite.

https://youtu.be/GPEAK3RjfLk
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Dave W on October 06, 2019, 10:59:19 AM
For all his crankiness, Ginger did have a sense of humor. In the mid 80s he had bought an olive farm in Italy. I saw him on Letterman's NBC show back then and Dave asked him if olive farming was difficult. Ginger said that the hardest part was getting the olives to grow around the pimientos.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Pilgrim on October 06, 2019, 11:49:50 AM
R.I.P. Ginger - you gave us great music.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: tore00 on October 06, 2019, 02:59:18 PM
Lot of coverage on Italian media. Cream are very popular here.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: wellREDman on October 06, 2019, 03:34:31 PM
RIP Ginger you wereone of the greats, they broke the mold after you
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on October 06, 2019, 03:35:40 PM
Very sorry to see Ginger go.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/steve-winwood-ginger-baker-blind-faith-tribute-895483/
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Rob on October 06, 2019, 05:20:23 PM
rip gINGER
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 07, 2019, 07:50:34 AM
In eternal commemoration, I want to start an online petition requiring Eric Clapton to play Sunshine Of Your Love PROPERLY from now on, i.e. with the emphasis on 1 and 3 - rather than 2 and 4. Someone has to tell him that he is playing it like ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuUgVXYnndQ

... yes, quite, ex-BCR Ian Mitchell (here with his Rosetta Stone outfit playing rhythm - as he did with BCR - on the Firebird).  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Grog on October 07, 2019, 07:57:30 AM
RIP Ginger..... I'm about due to watch my Cream Reunion DVD as a tribute.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 07, 2019, 09:43:38 AM
That was a good concert - before an auditorium filled with rock star royalty!
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Alanko on October 08, 2019, 02:12:50 PM
I've earned myself a temporary holiday from another bass forum for sharing my thoughts on the departed Mr. Baker.

If nothing else, given the flavour of eulogising repeated commonly online this week, you would think that Ginger played drums from 1966 to 1970, and then packed up his drums thereafter. Lots of love for Cream. Too much really. I find them plodding, most of their studio work is horribly badly mixed unless you like lopsided stereo mixes, and people are too quick to forgive them for crap like Wrapping Paper. Pete Brown's lyrics are a special kind of terrible as well. Blind Faith gets a wee mention as well but, lets be honest here, a lot of their stuff was a bit hesitant, undercooked and deathly dull.

What about the face-punching, heroin-jagging Ginger of the '70s who rode around Africa in a Range Rover pissing off Afrobeat musicians and Top Brass elite in equal measure? The guy who favoured Polo horses to his own flesh and blood? The guy who turned up in Hawkwind in the early '80s (appearing on their one good album of the era) armed only with a small, snapping dog?

A committedly unpleasant man from all reports. A guy who seems to have sought out new and creative ways of being as unpleasant as possible. A guy with serious, deep issues. Or maybe it was all an act.

(https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-17-2014/13sMD9.gif)
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on October 08, 2019, 05:44:52 PM
Ginger Baker himself said that he thought "Wrapping Paper" was shit.  I hardly think he can be blamed for it.  Whatever Eric Clapton's and Jack Bruce's reasons were for wanting to do that song, I don't know.  I suspect they wanted to just do something that would totally throw everyone off guard or something like that.  But I don't like that song, "Mother's Lament," or "Anyone for Tennis."  I like most other Cream songs, though.  As for solo work, I kept up way more with Jack Bruce's solo career than that of Ginger Baker and Eric Clapton.  What I did hear from Ginger Baker  I liked, although I can't say the same for Eric Clapton. 
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Pilgrim on October 08, 2019, 05:56:58 PM
There are many great musicians who were unpleasant people to be around. As long as I don't have to put up with them personally, I don't mind. I wouldn't join a band with a difficult person in it, but that's my choice.

When you make the kind of mark that Cream did, I don't care whether all three were sweethearts. I care about their music.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 08, 2019, 06:34:59 PM
As a person who appreciates Ritchie Blackmore, Lou Reed, Gene Simmons, Don Henley, Miles Davis, Johnny Lydon/Rotten, Andy Powell, Chuck Berry, Roger Waters, John Fogerty, Bob Dylan, Ike Turner, Ted Nugent, David Bowie and, hey, even the Beach Boys (Mike Love!), "unpleasant to crappy character" cannot possibly register on my meter. :mrgreen: Relatively few professional musicians are saints or even just nice people.

Ginger spoke his mind, was undiplomatic, had a bad temper, was a lousy father and a pain in the body part closest to his drum stool for his band mates - all true. And if he had drowned baby kittens in his pastime as well [he actually liked animals, but then so did the Führer / : - = ( ], that still wouldn't take a chip off his cymbals. He was a drummer with an absolutely idiosyncratic style - as a joke and inspired by Ilan's post we jammed Sunshine of your Love at the last rehearsal and I explicitly asked our lead guitarist (who played drums at the jam - he'a good drummer as well) to switch between the 1 and 4 tribal offbeat emphasis and the 2 and 4 standard beat - the difference was all the world and everyone in the room agreed that Ginger's original drum approach opened up the song.

Without Ginger there would be (by their own admission) no (or not as we know them) Ian Paice, Stewart Copeland, Simon Phillips and Neil Peart (right there four of the best drummers in the world).

And I'll never forgive you :mrgreen: that you didn't mention the Baker Gurvitz Army!!! The three albums he did with them are among his finest work (and better produced than the Cream stuff too).

Not everything Cream did was brilliant - they had their fillers and the trio concept its limitations. (Clapton being among the first to realize this and leave, legend has it that an album by The Band made him feel that Cream's music had become  irrelevant to him.) 20 minute improvisations are not for everyone, but I believe it is common sentiment that Clapton, Bruce and Baker (together with Jimi Hendrix) shaped - for better or worse - the rock music of the 70ies and beyond. Did anyone say "stadium rock"?! Das ist verboten.

But no one is ousting you here for not appreciating Ginger Baker or thinking Cream are crap! These days when you mention Cream outside of musician circles, most people think that you are talking about Queen. That always drives me mad.  :rolleyes: Wimmin', it has to be said, are especially guilty of this. Sunshine of your Bohemian Rhapsody alright: Bam-bam-bam-booreppa, I want to break free ...
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: amptech on October 08, 2019, 11:44:50 PM
Quote from: Alanko on October 08, 2019, 02:12:50 PM

Pete Brown's lyrics are a special kind of terrible as well.


What's the point of saying things like this?
Cream overrated?

I don't like Harry Potter, but what would I gain from saying the writer is a terrible writer and the books are 'too much loved'?
Don't get me wrong, I'm no Cream buff - but they made such a mark it's impossible to ignore.
Good band, really good musicians, good songs, good words, lots of energy...
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 09, 2019, 07:18:06 AM
Alan is allowed to play with fire a little - no band is sacrosanct here. Only Deep Purple - not that you guys ever give a crap about that!  :mrgreen:

I think that Cream's mix of an overly busy drummer and an overly busy bassist coupled with a conventional, but very good guitarist (yes, I still think that Clapton is a very good white blues guitarist, but he never took the guitar anywhere it hadn't been before, he's also never claimed to be that person) was really something. Where I agree with Alan is that their music was ill-served by the production of their albums, those Cream records pale in comparison with Jimi Hendrix stuff from the same era and let's not even get into how much better George Martin handled his protegées - the 50th anniv. ed. of Abbey Road shows that the man and his engineers were sonic Merlins - the sound of Cream albums is lightyears removed from that though you would think that it can't be that difficult to decently record a drum set, a bass, one guitar and some singing.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 09, 2019, 08:35:30 AM
Hey, Ilan!!! :mrgreen:

Little Ian pays his respects the way you should - with the offbeat!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=37&v=ciFFqlrzpvs
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: ilan on October 09, 2019, 11:15:41 PM
LOL yeah Uwe, it's a tribute to Ginger Baker, not the song, Paicey didn't really have a choice there.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: ilan on October 09, 2019, 11:20:02 PM
BTW love your new signature line
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: amptech on October 10, 2019, 12:48:03 AM
Quote from: uwe on October 09, 2019, 07:18:06 AM
Alan is allowed to play with fire a little - no band is sacrosanct here. Only Deep Purple - not that you guys ever give a crap about that!  :mrgreen:

I think I've been a good boy and not spoken out against Ricky Blackmore :)

Even though the only time I saw him play, he played with his back to the audience the whole show! I believe it was the last show he did with DP, but still. 8)
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 10, 2019, 08:15:16 AM
Quote from: ilan on October 09, 2019, 11:20:02 PM
BTW love your new signature line

I only quote things I hear and that make good sense to me.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: ajkula66 on October 10, 2019, 11:33:33 AM
Quote from: amptech on October 10, 2019, 12:48:03 AM
I think I've been a good boy and not spoken out against Ricky Blackmore :)

Even though the only time I saw him play, he played with his back to the audience the whole show! I believe it was the last show he did with DP, but still. 8)

Heh. I've seen him walk out in the middle of "Smoke On The Water". Encore, no less.... :rolleyes:...back in '87.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: lowend1 on October 11, 2019, 06:06:47 AM
Quote from: uwe on October 09, 2019, 07:18:06 AM(yes, I still think that Clapton is a very good white blues guitarist, but he never took the guitar anywhere it hadn't been before

Actually, he did. The "Beano" album with the Bluesbreakers pretty much created the blueprint for "classic" rock guitar tone - i.e. Les Paul (with pickup covers removed), Marshall, volume, repeat.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 11, 2019, 07:24:15 AM
Was he that much ahead of the Peter Greens of his time? I was too young to know and stand corrected. I even bought the Beano album only a few years back because I felt obliged to! Some records you just got to have in a proper collection, jawohl!

I had thought the whole Marshall thing only came with Cream. You live and learn.

I'm no Clapton-basher at all, none of his major moves were really commercially motivated. Leaving the Yardbirds for John Mayall, hardly a smart thing to do in the beat boom. Leaving Cream to become a solo singer/songwriter, a daft move in the beginning era of stadium rock where a continuing Cream would have been a money printing machine. He really always - sometimes stubbornly - followed his art, it's just that prevailing tastes changed and aligned with what he was doing: His "bluesy singer/songwriter with a wonderful lead guitar"-concept became a favorite as baby boomers aged.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Basvarken on October 11, 2019, 08:42:01 AM
I'm no big fan of Clapton. But his influence on the music scene was huge. The entire blues rock genre owes a great deal to him.

watch this series of you're interested:

https://youtu.be/PIuRLBrE5Nk
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: lowend1 on October 11, 2019, 09:48:53 AM
Quote from: uwe on October 11, 2019, 07:24:15 AM
Was he that much ahead of the Peter Greens of his time? I was too young to know and stand corrected. I even bought the Beano album only a few years back because I felt obliged to! Some records you just got to have in a proper collection, jawohl!

I had thought the whole Marshall thing only came with Cream. You live and learn.

I'm no Clapton-basher at all, none of his major moves were really commercially motivated. Leaving the Yardbirds for John Mayall, hardly a smart thing to do in the beat boom. Leaving Cream to become a solo singer/songwriter, a daft move in the beginning era of stadium rock where a continuing Cream would have been a money printing machine. He really always - sometimes stubbornly - followed his art, it's just that prevailing tastes changed and aligned with what he was doing: His "bluesy singer/songwriter with a wonderful lead guitar"-concept became a favorite as baby boomers aged.

There's a reason that the early Marshall JTM45 2x12 combo is referred to as a "Bluesbreaker". At some point Eric said in an interview that he ran the amp wide open for those sessions, and the legend of the cranked-up Marshall was born. The rumor of a Dallas Rangemaster treble booster in the signal path was both oft reported and incorrect. Clapton and the recording engineer have denied that one was used.
The Beano album preceded Green's most lauded work with Fleetwood Mac by a couple of years (remember who played bass in the Bluesbreakers at the time), and likewise Bloomfield, Beck, Page, and even Hendrix's Magna Cum Loud histrionics.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on October 11, 2019, 11:19:51 AM
Cream was always one of my favorite bands.  I liked a lot of other things Eric Clapton was involved in,, too, all too much to try to mention.  But at some point in his solo career he got bogged down.  His music became too commercialized and boring.  I don't even like most of the covers he did.  I've gotten into discussions about this kind of stuff with a friend many times.  He idolizes Clapton.  I much prefer Hendrix.  Although Hendrix was also beginning to get less interesting toward the end as he was trying to make a conscious decision to move away from rock.  Of course all of this is IMHO. 

Despite Eric Clapton's stunning achievements (going way way back, even to what he did on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps") I always was more interested in Ginger Baker and Jack Bruce.  Maybe it's okay to say that on a Ginger Baker thread. 
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: doombass on October 11, 2019, 02:59:38 PM
Quote from: uwe on October 09, 2019, 07:18:06 AM
Alan is allowed to play with fire a little - no band is sacrosanct here. Only Deep Purple - not that you guys ever give a crap about that!  :mrgreen:

Hrrm, I once happened to mention I think Herr Blackmore is sloppy in a kind of nonchalant way (though in a positive way since I like his approach) and that did'nt go by unnoticed from the resident Blackmore defender.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 15, 2019, 04:33:19 PM
Did I hit you or anything? I don't remember!!!   :o

Blackmore can be sloppy as hell. No denying.

Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: ilan on October 22, 2019, 09:04:59 AM
Quote from: uwe on October 15, 2019, 04:33:19 PM
Blackmore can be sloppy as hell. No denying.

In the best possible manner.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: doombass on October 22, 2019, 01:25:04 PM
Quote from: uwe on October 15, 2019, 04:33:19 PM
Did I hit you or anything? I don't remember!!!   :o

Blackmore can be sloppy as hell. No denying.

Don't worry,. I was only a tiny bit slapped on the back of the head. No red buttock.  :mrgreen: Your loss of memory is excused. It must have been the Dudepit era.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 22, 2019, 01:41:02 PM
With our joint history, I was really worried!

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-d7678451aeb07711991d0fd77209afbe.webp)

Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: doombass on October 23, 2019, 05:48:14 AM
In Sweden we mostly helped with train logistics and the occasional guided and guarded path between Norway and Finland.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Rob on October 23, 2019, 07:41:11 AM
Quote from: doombass on October 22, 2019, 01:25:04 PM
Don't worry,. I was only a tiny bit slapped on the back of the head. No red buttock.  :mrgreen: Your loss of memory is excused. It must have been the Dudepit era.

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: amptech on October 23, 2019, 10:58:06 PM
Quote from: doombass on October 23, 2019, 05:48:14 AM
In Sweden we mostly helped with train logistics and the occasional guided and guarded path between Norway and Finland.

...And now we pay you back by shopping all our candies, meat and booze in your country  ;D
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: doombass on October 24, 2019, 01:30:30 AM
Yup!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on October 24, 2019, 11:37:37 AM
We should rename this place The Last Viking Outpost ...

(https://i2.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Pathfinder07.jpg?fit=650%2C+9999&crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C326px&quality=100&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Rob on October 24, 2019, 01:24:20 PM
Quote from: uwe on October 24, 2019, 11:37:37 AM
We should rename this place The Last Viking Outpost ...

(https://i2.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Pathfinder07.jpg?fit=650%2C+9999&crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C326px&quality=100&ssl=1)

With a Hagstrom sub?
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on November 27, 2019, 07:05:12 AM
Eric Clapton is giving a Ginger Baker tribute concert.

https://pitchfork.com/news/eric-clapton-announces-ginger-baker-tribute-concert/
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Dave W on November 27, 2019, 08:54:21 PM
Quote from: westen44 on November 27, 2019, 07:05:12 AM
Eric Clapton is giving a Ginger Baker tribute concert.

https://pitchfork.com/news/eric-clapton-announces-ginger-baker-tribute-concert/

Very good of Eric, and it benefits a charity.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on November 28, 2019, 04:57:46 AM
I hope he gets the drum part on Sunshine of Your Love right this time!
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on November 28, 2019, 11:46:03 PM
Quote from: Dave W on November 27, 2019, 08:54:21 PM
Very good of Eric, and it benefits a charity.

Yes, I agree it just seems like a straightforward effort on the part of Eric to honor Ginger's memory.  That fact that it helps charity is good, too.  He is just trying to help out.  I have a friend who reads about everything that's out there about Eric, Ginger and Jack. He said the main reason that 2005 reunion occurred was simply because Eric realized Jack needed the money.  Now all that's left, of course, is for him to pay tribute to Jack and Ginger. 
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on November 29, 2019, 08:46:51 AM
I don't get the impression that Clapton is very money-driven. He left Cream at their commercial peak for an uncertain future as a solo singer/songwriter artist - commercially that was a suicide plan, he wasn't regarded as much of a singer in his Cream days (he isn't to this day!  ;D ). And he only did the Cream reunions because the other two were broke, his solo tours were and are consistent sell-outs. Bruce's and Baker's solo careers post cream were erratic at best, not counting in their bad health issues.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on November 29, 2019, 09:37:51 AM
I'm paraphrasing him, but my friend yesterday had some observations about Jack.  He said it was hard for him to find his footing after Cream.  His jazz was over the head of most rock fans, but it didn't quite fit into the Miles Davis crowd, either.  Jack experienced frustration for various reasons.  His supporters which continued to follow him were  mostly hardcore Cream fans.  Where my friend and I differ most is he likes the "Things We Like" album and I can't even listen to it.  He dislikes the Silver Rails album and I continue to like it more each time I listen to it. 

My friend also has a lot of insight into Ginger that I just don't have.  I loved his drumming, but it's doubtful I could have ever been on much of a first name basis. 
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on November 29, 2019, 11:50:04 AM
Both Ginger and Jack were esoteric and eclectic in their musical careers - in most cases a choice dooming you to non-commerciality. Eric, OTOH, is arch-middle of the road and has stuck to his guns ever since he left Cream: He does bluesy songwriter-rock-pop for an audience that likes its music more pleasant than groundbreaking. That is why you never heard an Axis Bold As Love or a Blow By Blow/Wired from him. That is not knocking him, I think his music is sincere, just not raw or Gung-ho. It's not in him.

Eric is the only one of the three whose post-Cream-split career has totally eclipsed what he did before: Sure, he used his Cream fame and guitarslinger reputation initially to gain a new audience, but at his concerts today (and for the last 45 years or so) there is a vast amount of people who come to hear Layla, Wonderful Tonight and - in more recent times - Tears in Heaven as opposed to a 20 minute version of, say, White Room. He uses his Cream legacy like some faded old photographs you show to the bemused guests at an anniversary birthday party: "Oh, and yes, I also did this at one point ...". That is again not knocking him, the man has progressed, not in the sense of doing something more ambitious or complicated, but in the sense of doing something completely different (and perhaps less musically demanding and groundbreaking). I believe the people that continue to revere him only for his Cream accomplishments (at the expense of most everything later) largely populate dinosaur forums like ours!  :mrgreen:

(http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2009/02/20/14__1235140073_6125.jpg)
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Dave W on November 29, 2019, 10:08:10 PM
Whether it's because of his Cream days or the later stuff, Eric still draws crowds. His critics want him to be something he's not, but they're not the ones buying tickets. He's not innovative any more. So what? He's doing what he wants.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on November 30, 2019, 01:22:34 AM
That's right.  People should do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights.  I'm certain Clapton is pleased he didn't take advice from me or someone like me.  Because I disliked all his hit songs as a solo artist, even his cover versions.  If he had asked me, I would have told him there were better songs he could do.  But I certainly liked Cream and Blind Faith and have spent plenty of money buying CDs of those bands.  There is a new Cream 4-CD set coming out soon and, of course, I want to get that, too.  It won't be released until February, though. 

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/cream-goodbye-tour-live-1968-box-set-919780/


Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: doombass on November 30, 2019, 03:07:22 PM
Quote from: westen44 on November 30, 2019, 01:22:34 AM
That's right.  People should do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on someone else's rights.  I'm certain Clapton is pleased he didn't take advice from me or someone like me.  Because I disliked all his hit songs as a solo artist, even his cover versions.  If he had asked me, I would have told him there were better songs he could do.

I can relate to that. I would never bash him because I respect him as the musician he is. It's just that most of his music I've heard after Cream and Blind Faith has been too slick to suit my taste.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Pilgrim on November 30, 2019, 04:01:47 PM
Quote from: Dave W on November 29, 2019, 10:08:10 PM
Whether it's because of his Cream days or the later stuff, Eric still draws crowds. His critics want him to be something he's not, but they're not the ones buying tickets. He's not innovative any more. So what? He's doing what he wants.

I have trouble seeing why people would criticize a musician for playing what he/she likes, especially when they're commercially successful.  There are plenty of musicians whose music I don't like, but I simply don't listen to them. That's OK, they're not playing for me anyway.

I'm very fond of Clapton's versions of "Nobody Loves You When You're Down and Out" and "San Francisco Bay Blues." I love playing them, too. He didn't write them, but they're great tunes.

Incidentally, here's an original of the former, tune by Scrapper Blackwell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=626pNZB8xXE
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Dave W on November 30, 2019, 06:13:26 PM
I don't care for much of what he's done post-Cream. Then again, I can say the same thing about Jack and Ginger. No probelem. What they had in Cream is more than enough for me. What's hard to believe is how long ago that was.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on December 01, 2019, 09:19:57 PM
It has nothing to do with anyone here.  But I'd advise not getting into any discussion with anyone who thinks that everything Clapton did before, during and after Cream was perfect.  To some people the "Clapton is God" slogan is evidently serious business.  Honestly, I was unaware of that.  Some things you have to learn the hard way. 
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Pilgrim on December 01, 2019, 10:09:51 PM
Quote from: westen44 on December 01, 2019, 09:19:57 PM
It has nothing to do with anyone here.  But I'd advise not getting into any discussion with anyone who thinks that everything Clapton did before, during and after Cream was perfect.  To some people the "Clapton is God" slogan is evidently serious business.  Honestly, I was unaware of that.  Some things you have to learn the hard way.

Aside from that fact that I usually don't engage in such discussions, I don't care whether someone feels that way. And I'm pretty sure that none of the regulars on this forum would be very concerned about it either.

Perhaps the best suggestion would be that they go tan their perineum.  While they're looking it up, you can exit the conversation and leave.   ;) ;)
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on December 02, 2019, 12:25:00 AM
Quote from: Pilgrim on December 01, 2019, 10:09:51 PM
Aside from that fact that I usually don't engage in such discussions, I don't care whether someone feels that way. And I'm pretty sure that none of the regulars on this forum would be very concerned about it either.

Perhaps the best suggestion would be that they go tan their perineum.  While they're looking it up, you can exit the conversation and leave.   ;) ;)

I think you have a valid point. Except maybe not for the perineum part.  If this kind of thing keeps up, some people I fear are going to end up with the perineum tanning blues.  . 
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Rob on December 02, 2019, 06:23:38 AM
Quote from: Pilgrim on December 01, 2019, 10:09:51 PM
Aside from that fact that I usually don't engage in such discussions, I don't care whether someone feels that way. And I'm pretty sure that none of the regulars on this forum would be very concerned about it either.

Perhaps the best suggestion would be that they go tan their perineum.  While they're looking it up, you can exit the conversation and leave.   ;) ;)

This is one of your best!!!!
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on December 03, 2019, 11:09:45 AM
Perineum Tan would be such a great band name.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Pilgrim on December 03, 2019, 11:26:52 AM
Quote from: uwe on December 03, 2019, 11:09:45 AM
Perineum Tan would be such a great band name.

EEEEEeeeeexxxxxcellent!!!!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/5nFShZWwq3fdm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: wellREDman on December 03, 2019, 12:26:53 PM
The Burnt Inflamed*** Perineums  sounds a little more metal ...

*** Uwe's edit
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: wellREDman on December 03, 2019, 12:56:51 PM
couldnt resist

(https://i.imgur.com/unQh1HV.jpg)

but maybe youre right
(https://i.imgur.com/QCAXkuF.jpg)

Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on December 03, 2019, 04:42:14 PM
Perineum Tan's debut would of course be monikered "Where the Sun Don't Shine"!
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Rob on December 03, 2019, 05:36:51 PM
 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on December 17, 2019, 09:12:49 AM
Ok, let's speak ill of the dead, I'm sure Ginger's more robust humor can take it:

I just read in the CD booklet of Hawkwind's Levitation (1980) how it came that Ginger Baker's stint in the space rockers was as short as it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-QEpRgs9sM

After having endeared himself to his new band mates by taking an extremely vicious dog along on tour which terrorized everyone backstage, Ginger decided that it might be a good idea to bring his old pal Jack (Bruce) into Hawkwind, so to say as "Ginger Baker's Cream of Hawkwind"; he had coincidentally met him during a German TV show and they had reconnected/made up again (for a while ...).

As Hawkwind were already equipped with a bassist named Harvey Bainbridge, this posed a slight problem which Ginger promptly decided to solve in his own inimitable way by badmouthing Harvey as "the worst bass player on earth". When he pressured Hawkwind to fire Harvey, their reaction somewhat backfired; they had Harvey - of all people - inform Ginger of the unanimous band decision that Ginger's services were herewith no longer required. :mrgreen:

Ginger took it with his usual good grace, commenting both benevolently and humbly in the aftermath "the worst bassist on earth fired the best drummer on earth".  :rimshot:

Darn, so we missed out on Jack Bruce following Lemmy's cowboy booted footsteps and hearing him sing as well as play Silver Machine.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: westen44 on December 17, 2019, 09:27:39 AM
Only Ginger could have come up with a line like "the worst bassist on earth fired the best drummer on earth." 
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: Dave W on December 17, 2019, 09:57:20 AM
Ginger was always tactful. And modest.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: slinkp on December 17, 2019, 10:48:46 AM
Such a crazy and great story I had to google it - and turned up this book:

https://books.google.com/books?id=2EX-iEkKdz4C&pg=PT306&lpg=PT306&dq=the+worst+bassist+on+earth+sacked+the+best+drummer+on+earth&source=bl&ots=Ien-Sm5GWG&sig=ACfU3U2abjh7JpZDaaTtvt_Z63jFoo8zhg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtzLzmnb3mAhXlnuAKHQcGD_8Q6AEwEnoECA0QAQ#v=onepage&q=the%20worst%20bassist%20on%20earth%20sacked%20the%20best%20drummer%20on%20earth&f=false

... which corroborates the story, only ascribing the quote to a Melody Maker headline rather than Ginger.
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on December 17, 2019, 12:09:24 PM
Hawkwind were so dysfunctional as a band, they are a treasure trove for stories like that. But at the same time they just keep on going and have their own inimitable style no matter who plays in the band - they must have had a zillion line-ups and offshoots (Hawklords, Nik Turner, Motörhead).

And one of their strangest collaborations was the recent one with, yup, Mike Batt! They sure have guts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqRJlM6aHjw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B9tLD4MVes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwgiVdTZPIc
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: wellREDman on December 17, 2019, 03:23:31 PM
Hawkwind are one of my all time favourites, I'm gutted that the imminent death of my car has forced me to forgo  tickets for their 50th Anniversary shows.(the fact that they're not playing their usual gig locally, which i can blag into makes this worse) 

Ive seen them many many times and they had got a bit "tired"  but on the last tour they were astoundingly good and I am  really pleased that they're having a bit of a renaisance, they were tight as and really tore the roof off.
a good part of the new lease of life is their new bass player who is really proper good. his style puts me in mind of Cliff Burton and it really really works with the material.

If you like them then take the chance now to see them while they're reinvigorated
Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: uwe on December 17, 2019, 03:48:27 PM
For some reason the ole hippies hardly ever tour Germany! Probably because Silver Machine gave them the one-hit-wonder stamp here - which doesn't do them any justice, I know.

I shoulda seen them with Stacia!

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/20/d4/fd/20d4fdd2fc39ccda5043a9d1c1be268b.gif)

I also love the Hawklords stuff - Calvert's lyrics put him in a class of his own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFPLgGWMndc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSR5TnNGKmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aHR0JAro8w

Title: Re: Ginger Baker critically ill
Post by: amptech on December 18, 2019, 12:06:04 AM
Gotta agree - good band. Saw them two times, had a great time both shows. Ok, Dave is more of a band leader than a front man, but Richard sure can entertain, good drummer!