Quality amps

[Tim Brosnan]

Hello, this is my first post here. I have a question. It seems today that most MI amps-in fact, most electronic devices today-are only made to last for a few years, before failing. They're not even made to be repaired anymore, just tossed away when they break down. Is there any amp companies today building bass amps that are not like that? I would appreciate your opinions, thanks!

[patman]

I am interested, also...

[ack1961]

I'll probably get the hammer for this, but: Peavey. 
Fantastic Technical Support for their bass amps (and their MIA products in general).
Pick up the phone, they answer. Email, they respond.  Their website is great and full of support tools as well.

I only had one small issue with a ProBass 500 and I had a part in my hand in 2 days...and they wouldn't accept a dime for it.
I think their MIA bass guitars and amps were built to last.

[Pilgrim]

I'm OK with my Genz-Benz SHuttle 6.0 but PB Guy seems to think it will melt into a puddle some day in the future and be un-repairable.  All I can say is that i that's true, I'd rather tote a 3.75 pound micro-amp for a few years and replace it if needed, instead of lugging a 40-pound boat anchor amp around that lasts longer.

[Tim Brosnan]

I have always liked Peavey gear, even if their older amps were like boat anchors! I saw in another thread here where PB Guy said Peavey seems to have gone downhill in the last 5 years. I have always liked Fender amps too, but I've heard the same about them-although my 7 year old Bassman 250/210 combo seems to be holding up. Genz amps are well regarded pretty much everywhere, but I guess they have ceased to exist?

[Pilgrim]

If I wanted an older solid but inexpensive amp and didn't care about weight, I'd look for a 200-300 watt Peavey amp from the 70's that has been reconditioned. But there are plenty of good amps around.

Fender bought Genz and I'm not sure what their future prospects are.  There are plenty of Shuttle series amps around used, though.

[ramone57]

I would place GK on the list.  their gear lasts forever and they're customer support is excellent

[Pilgrim]

I would place GK on the list.  their gear lasts forever and they're customer support is excellent

Agreed.  GK has made a number of very good, durable amps, and they're lighter than the old Peaveys.

[Dave W]

Aren't you guys missing the point? He's asking about amps being built today, not older amps that we know are repairable.

I don't have an answer since my last bass amp purchase was 18 years ago.

[Granny Gremlin]

I'll probably get the hammer for this, but: Peavey.  
Fantastic Technical Support for their bass amps (and their MIA products in general).
Pick up the phone, they answer. Email, they respond.  Their website is great and full of support tools as well.

I don't think anyone will disagree about the reliability of Peavey gear (the level of support is something I wasn't familiar with, but good to know) - I've referred to them as the brick shithouses of the amp world here before myself (they really take a beating).  The issue with them is more the sound; not a good reputation, as they do have a specific colour to their solid state gear that may not be for everyone.  Their tube amps are really good sounding IMHO, and they also make some good speaker drive units (The Scorpion line for bass/PA is rock solid and good sounding, and the Sheffield 12s for guitar are also desirable).


As for my recommendation: I third for GK, especially the 400RB (200 watts) and related models (note, I have only used, and base my opinion on the old black and grey ones, the 400RB I, the new ones with the ovular grille on the front, the 400RB IV,  I have never tried, but I assume, until I experience/hear otherwise, that they are just as good, given the pedigree) are incredibly reliable and good sounding if simple/not many bells and whistles. They (either the old or new ones) are also dirt cheap (used on ebay - any version, I through IV, can be easily had for <200; the 400RB IV is available new for about $500).  Best bass amp value ever, IMHO, and solid as hell - most hourly rehearsal spaces around here are still rocking 400RBs they purchased in the 80s and that's a punishing existence let me assure you.

[rahock]

Hey Tim, there is still a lot of good stuff being made today. It may help everyone to know how big or little a hunk of hardware you're looking to pick up.
Rick

[chromium]

Hello, this is my first post here.

Welcome!

I have a question. It seems today that most MI amps-in fact, most electronic devices today-are only made to last for a few years, before failing. They're not even made to be repaired anymore, just tossed away when they break down. Is there any amp companies today building bass amps that are not like that? I would appreciate your opinions, thanks!

Any amp should be able to be fixed, but there are reasons why it may be undesirable to do so...

Most circuit boards today are designed to be manufactured by pick-and-place robots, and use miniaturized versions of the components used in older electronics (called surface mount devices; SMD).  People can and do troubleshoot and repair boards like that by hand, but in most cases its probably easier just to toss and replace the entire PC board (assuming its available) - rather than toiling over data sheets, scoping out the fault, and executing the replacement of tiny SMD parts.  I bet most amp techs who earn their keep fixing SVTs and the like won't even touch that kind of work, and even if they are qualified to do it - in many cases the cost of that work might exceed the cost of simply replacing the entire amp.

PCB amps that use the through-hole components (the parts intended to be stuffed into the board and assembled by humans) would stand a better chance of being repairable by a tech.  Through hole boards in consumer electronics are fading fast, however, for a couple of reasons - one is "MBA disease" driving every ounce of profitability into such products (and that means getting the slow, expensive humans out of the equation), and the other is the fact that through-hole parts are slowly and steadily becoming obsolete (as a result of the industry shift to surface mount technology).

Not sure which builders are doing what these days.  I'd assume the modern GK, Fender, Ampeg, etc.. fare all use SMT boards.

[Tim Brosnan]

I would probably be looking for between 300-400 watts. The kind of gigs I do don't require anything too crazy loud. As for the whole circuit board thing, I completely understand. My full time job is in the auto parts business-Toyota, to be exact, so I see that everywhere.

Maybe a better question then is; who do you guys think is better at building those amps. I've seen a few for GK, and I like how their pro level stuff sounds. I have also heard that as of 2006, lead free solder is required, and that that stuff doesn't work as well as the old stuff.

I found this board when I found PsychoBassGuy again. I know he is on hiatus right now, but this seems like a cool place, so I'm glad to be a part of it.

[Granny Gremlin]

lead free solder is required, and that that stuff doesn't work as well as the old stuff.

Not true - it performs (or should, never tried myself) better than leaded (both copper and silver are a very good conductors - better than lead easily).  

The issue is price and workability - higher melting point (easier to damage components, especially SMDs and PCB traces), lower flowability (lead becomes very fluid very easily, vs tin, silver and copper, which form lead-free solders) and I'm not sure if they have a eutectic (the alloy melts all as one vs lumpy; i.e. 63/37 vs 60/40 Tin/lead) lead-free formulation yet (there's no such regulation up here in Canada, so I still use 63/37 personally).  Obviously copper and silver are much more costy than lead as well.

In fact some audiophiles have been using lead-free 'silver solder' for years even before the new regs.

[dadagoboi]

.... ovular grille on the front, the 400RB IV...

What's your definition of ovular?  Or doesn't oval sound important enough?