Kiss goes to RRHOF...

[OldManC]

I wasn't really a Nirvana fan but their impact was huge long before Cobain killed himself. Even if he'd lived and they'd faded in popularity, they would still deserve their place in rock history by how completely they changed the rock landscape (and that's coming from a guy who was more glam and metal than anything else in the late 80's). Yeah, "grunge" became just another fashion line and marketing tool, but it's not like those guys invented that part of it. I also agree that Butch Vig/Steve Farmer (and I'd argue Dave Grohl) had a lot to do with their success, but it made that big of an impact either way.

[gweimer]

I wasn't really a Nirvana fan but their impact was huge long before Cobain killed himself. Even if he'd lived and they'd faded in popularity, they would still deserve their place in rock history by how completely they changed the rock landscape (and that's coming from a guy who was more glam and metal than anything else in the late 80's). Yeah, "grunge" became just another fashion line and marketing tool, but it's not like those guys invented that part of it. I also agree that Butch Vig/Steve Farmer (and I'd argue Dave Grohl) had a lot to do with their success, but it made that big of an impact either way.

A good friend of mine was an engineer at Smart Studios.  He's the one who told me that Farmer was the real brains behind Nevermind.  As someone who never much cared for Nirvana (lots of poppy melodies over weird minor chords...big whoop), I loved Nevermind for the sheer range of sound alone.  Every song and instrument are nearly perfectly crafted aurally.  I think Farmer managed to put that silk purse on a sow's ear.

[lowend1]

A good friend of mine was an engineer at Smart Studios.  He's the one who told me that Farmer was the real brains behind Nevermind.  As someone who never much cared for Nirvana (lots of poppy melodies over weird minor chords...big whoop), I loved Nevermind for the sheer range of sound alone.  Every song and instrument are nearly perfectly crafted aurally.  I think Farmer managed to put that silk purse on a sow's ear.

Polishing a turd?

[ack1961]

Kiss and RRHOF - perfect for each other.

[westen44]

Kiss and RRHOF - perfect for each other.

I'm not a KISS fan, but at least they are a rock band.  That's more that can be said for the many of the totally unappealing and non-rock losers that often get inducted into the RRHOF.  My biggest gripe, though, is that many bands which deserve to be in there will probably never get in.  Anyway, it's obvious to many people that the RRHOF is a joke, as has already been noted here. 

[gearHed289]

I wasn't really a Nirvana fan but their impact was huge long before Cobain killed himself. Even if he'd lived and they'd faded in popularity, they would still deserve their place in rock history by how completely they changed the rock landscape (and that's coming from a guy who was more glam and metal than anything else in the late 80's). Yeah, "grunge" became just another fashion line and marketing tool, but it's not like those guys invented that part of it. I also agree that Butch Vig/Steve Farmer (and I'd argue Dave Grohl) had a lot to do with their success, but it made that big of an impact either way.

Looking into my crystal ball, I could see Kurt as sort of the "alternative" rock Axl Rose right now. A couple of smash hits right out of the gate, then spending the rest of his career riding that.

[uwe]

As everybody knows I'm not a Nirvana fan, but I'm sure Cobain would have never toured as Nirvana with two hired hands like Axl has been for more than a decade with his Guns & Roses cabaret act. Cobain was a troubled mind, but he had integrity. Had he lived, I think he would have ended as a singer/songwriter, Nirvana wasn't much more than the electrified version of that.

[westen44]

As everybody knows I'm not a Nirvana fan, but I'm sure Cobain would have never toured as Nirvana with two hired hands like Axl has been for more than a decade with his Guns & Roses cabaret act. Cobain was a troubled mind, but he had integrity. Had he lived, I think he would have ended as a singer/songwriter, Nirvana wasn't much more than the electrified version of that.

I feel exactly the same way.  I'll never be a Nirvana fan, either.  But I didn't appreciate that there was more to Cobain than I had realized.  This is one of those times in which I'll have to admit I was wrong.  It's also Cobain's integrity that I now respect.  Back in the 90s, I looked at Nirvana as a clown show.  But like I said, I was wrong. 

[uwe]

I auditioned with a grunge band yesterday, they were a lot more grungier than I thought from the demos they had sent me, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. About an hour of playing with them and the wanton mix of major and minor chords and scales, none of it elegantly matched (there are ways to do it, but grunge bands don't seem to have the songwriter knack someone like Albert Hammond had when he wrote the non harmony rules-abiding chord changes for The Air that I breathe - as stolen by Radiohead for their Creep), I began to feel physical discomfort. It's been more than twenty years since the heyday of Nirvana and Soundgarden, but to me 90% of that stuff still sounds like someone is moving bar chords on a guitar neck who doesn't really know what should go where.

I feel guilty about, I really do. It is uncool to despise grunge, I know. Something is wrong with me. I try to be open to most kinds of music, but when someone alternates in one song between keys of  A minor and C Minor coupled with too many diminished fifths and major scale runs over minor chords with - of course - a D major chorus that ends in Bb major, my tolerance is tested severely.

After two hours I told them that they did what they did well, but that it was just too grungy for me (they took that as a compliment). I did test one of the guitarists by - at his invitation - playing a blues with which I started in E minor before moving on to a G major blues after a couple of minutes. He could have just stayed in his E minor pentatonic blues scale for that and it would have sounded nicely majorish with my G major bass lines, but of course he had nothing better to do than to revert to his minor pentatonic blues riffs, this time in G minor pentatonic blues scale ("sounds more natural to me"). It was the final straw that broke the harmony camel's back. Major scale solos have become a dying art unless you go to Status Quo concerts.

In the car I then listened to Night Ranger (even though Nirvana's remastered debut has been in the car for more than 18 months, but I have only gotten myself to listening to it once). What a relief it was to listen to two guitarists - Brad Gillis and Jeff Watson - who know the difference between major and minor.



And all the way back on the drive home, I had this melody in my head as if to exorcise the grunge harmony demons!!!!  



I've come to the realization that I'm old-fashioned!

[westen44]

"Caught Up In You," has always been way up on the list of my favorite songs of all time.  A rock masterpiece.  Of course, my roots are Southern rock anyway.  Just great music that I've always personally identified with. 

[uwe]

Never mind how it was written by a "Northerner" (Jim Peterik stems from Illinois, well safe from the Confederacy!) who was also responsible for "Vehicle" and "Eye of the Tiger"!

[westen44]

Never mind how it was written by a "Northerner" who was also responsible for "Vehicle" and "Eye of the Tiger"!

But the 38 Special presentation and overall vibe are very Southern, all the way down to the South Midland dialect pronunciation of the lyrics. Or maybe it would be called Southern Appalachian dialect, but whatever it is, it sounds very familiar to me. 

[uwe]

I know what you mean, the orignal vid was very Southernish (if you think True Blood is a correct depiction of the South!) too. Right down to the Southern belle's waist-knotted blouse and such, snooker playing, lovely clichées amass!



Now I want 38 Special for the RRHoF. And Night Ranger! (Acoustic guitar solos alone are worth price of admission!)

[westen44]

I haven't seen True Blood.  The song came out in 1982.  It reminds me of something you might see in the 70s Deep South, although by that time I was  in New Orleans.  Things were a little different there.  As for the song "Caught Up In You," I think I may have suggested it to be used as a wedding song, but have had no takers.  Pretty romantic as far as I'm concerned.  

As for Night Ranger,  a song like "Sister Christian" has now been played a million times.  I suppose it might be considered trite now.  But I don't judge songs that way, rather by how they were when they first appeared.  In 1984, whether you liked it or not, it did get a lot of attention.  But at that time it was fresh and new.  People get all bent out of shape about songs being played too much, being past their prime, etc.  But that isn't the song's fault or the songwriter's.  It's why the Beatles need to be looked at within their own time frame, not by today's so much. 

[gweimer]

Never mind how it was written by a "Northerner" (Jim Peterik stems from Illinois, well safe from the Confederacy!) who was also responsible for "Vehicle" and "Eye of the Tiger"!

Peterik is a really versatile writer, and can work in different genres.  He also wrote "Heavy Metal" for Sammy Hagar.