Skynyrd & Bad Co in Woodstock (Thunderbird content)

[uwe]

Sure you did/do! Also thanks to you I now have my luthier installing Mike Lull chromies - did I really write that? - into my 2011 Explorer. If those don't sound right, I'll come over, tear off your fishnet pantyhose and spank you!!!

There was nothing wrong with the TB Plus black soapies in that bass, neither visually nor sonically, but I thought that the more aggressive sound of the Lulls might be more in line with what you'd expect from a bass with visuals like an Explorer. Somewhere, albeit hidden, the heavy metal kid is still in me.

[Nocturnal]

Speaking of Explorer basses. You have always commented on how they were "a loveless affair" or something like that. Is it the fact that it is short scale, is it just weak pickups, a combination of both?? I only ask because there are a couple that have been for sale locally for much less than the Ebay prices and wondered how they would be with some TBPlus installed?

[Denis]

I think Uwe's said often that the Epi Explorers are where it's at over the Gibson versions but I don't remember why. They certainly would be less expensive!

[TBird1958]

Sure you did/do! Also thanks to you I now have my luthier installing Mike Lull chromies - did I really write that? - into my 2011 Explorer. If those don't sound right, I'll come over, tear off your fishnet pantyhose and spank you!!!

There was nothing wrong with the TB Plus black soapies in that bass, neither visually nor sonically, but I thought that the more aggressive sound of the Lulls might be more in line with what you'd expect from a bass with visuals like an Explorer. Somewhere, albeit hidden, the heavy metal kid is still in me.

You're threatening me with a good time 


Seriously, I know you'll love those Lulls 

[Highlander]

I think Uwe's said often that the Epi Explorers are where it's ...

Uwe's said numerous good things about the better overall "quality" (hopefully a fair comment, boss) of these bass's compared with the "original" but on a quick scan through them I can not be sure if the Epi is long-scale, which I think it is, iirc... this was one of those maybe, one-day instruments for me in my budgetary world, like a Epi or Bach NR, but if I had the spare greens I'd still probably ask Carlo to build me a body for my spare Jazz neck and finish it off, Kenny-stylee, and with a single pup and pot...

[Denis]

I think the Epis are long scale. Earlier this year a couple were listed on CL here for between $250 and $500. One was Korinna and looked great.

[uwe]

Bear with me, I'll clarify everything in a few hours, but the principles are: 80ies Gibson Exis were medium scale, all Epi Exis past and present were/are long scale, the 2011 Ltd Ed reissue of the Exi by Gibson was long scale. My criticism has always only applied to the original medium scale 80ies Gibsons. The Epi is fine for the money and a wonderful platform for greater things while the 2011 reissue is mighty fine as is. More on woods and such later ...

[lowend1]

Huh huh huhhuh - he said more on wood later...

[gweimer]

Huh huh huhhuh - he said more on wood later...

...and such

[lowend1]

...and such

Which, around here, means WWII aircraft, anal sex and squirrels.

[uwe]

  Boys will be boys, forever trapped in a puberty time warp ...

1. So the 80ies Gibson Exis were loveless because they combined cheap fins with an unfavorable scale and hand-me-down hardware from the previous Victory plus pups from the Grabber:

- The medium scale was neither here nor there, but especially ill-fitting on a bass which (given the type of band it would be played in) cried for a dominant, take no prisoners E-string. The medium scale has the string tension droopy and non-assertive for a bass like that. I know that there are good medium scales out there, but not the 80ies Gibson Explorers.

- The brass nut, the tuners and the Schaller roller wedges bridge all came from the then deleted Victory. While nothing wrong with that harware in principle, it made the bass seem like a quick cash-in.

- By the mid 80ies the Grabber pups were well beyond their best use date: Middish affairs they were out of sync with a time where bassists wanted earthshaking lows coupled with audible piano rrring presence. Contrary to its looks, the Explorer was not the bass to be assertive in a twin-guitar, double-bass drum line up that was de rigueur then.

- Early 80ies Explorers were alder body and maple neck (like the ill-fated Flying V bass that preceded them), a tried and trusted Fender combo, but not one Gibson was good at, maybe alder needs a certain body thickness/mass and a bolt-on construction like the alder body Grabbers had. Later 80ies Explorers reverted to the more traditional Gibson maho body/maple neck combo.

Not recommended.

2. The Epiphone Exi might have iffy budget hardware and standard Epi pups loaned from the regular budget Epi TBird (they sound better in the Explorer than in the TBird), but it has two very redeeming qualities:

- a long scale, the E-string is mighty, the whole bass more assertive than the Gibson predecessor,

- the body (neck is maple) is made of some incredibly non-descript looking (balsa wood comes to mind), softish and dent-prone,  rather light wood, but man does it sound good! Rich and resonant. Epi claims it to be "korina", of course it isn't (my luthier says it might be something in the family, but of Pacific origin), but whatever it is, it has great sonic characteristics. Just enough fuzziness to not have the bass sound too clean, but without obscuring low bass and treble.

Off the rack, an Epi Explorer already sounds and feels better than an 80ies Gibson one, but when souped up with proper pups and hardware it is in another universe.

Recommended.

3. The Gibson 2011 Ltd Ed Explorers were long scale, had modern TBird hardware and pups as well as a maho body/maple neck wood combination. They sound nothing like the 80ies fare, bassier and mightier than a modern TBird, but not as sweet.

Recommended too though I can't really say that they sound better than a souped up Epi, that Epi "wonder wood" adds a bit more airiness in the mids where the Gibson sounds more solid. Largely a matter of taste.

[Nocturnal]

Thanks for the Explorer breakdown Uwe. Sounds like the 80"s models should be avoided. Maybe I will pick up an Epi model next time I see one for sale.

[uwe]

Stick in a pair of TB Plus (you'll need to work a bit on the original pup cavities for that) and you already have a mean sounding bass, bit of a cross between a TBird and a Ric.

[uwe]

Those two vids say it all - ignore Herr Grove's longwinded string deliberations and less than qualified comments ("great-sounding, amazingly playing bass ..."  ), even with new strings the 80ies Gibson Explorer has no authority, no comparison to the Epi featured in the second vid (ignore the music if Metallica isn't your taste!). Through all the differences in sound, playing style and recording of the audio as well as amount of distortion you can hear how the E string of the Epi especially is in a different league, it can even be heard with Metallica thrashing in the background. 

[Denis]

Your point on sound is clearly made although both videos are most tedious!