Alice Cooper: Don't call it rock 'n' roll

[NOT]

I agree with Alice. What's now considered Rock N' Roll just doesn't hold up to the likes of "Muscle of Love" and "Public Animal #9". However, I might be a little bias. I'm a huge Alice Cooper fan. Not so much the 80's era,  but the 70's stuff is gold.

Mumford & Sons are great at what they do. It's just not Rock N' Roll.

[uwe]

It's a bit of a tongue in cheek cheap shot by Alice really, because I don't believe that Mumford & Sons even profess to be a rock band. They are probably no less a rock band than America were in their time, but considerably less than Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young in their prime, who thanks to Stills and Nash could rock quite a bit among all their folk, country and psychedelic Westcoast influences. Speaking of: I saw Neil Young and Crazy Horse last week - he had one of his "hardly any ballads or acoustic songs"-nights and it was an (entertaining) orgy of feedback and primal as well as endless guitar solos, but it ticked all the "Is it rock?"-boxes for sure.

[Granny Gremlin]

"Poison" is my favorite Alice Cooper song. It's the quintessential mixture of sex, domination, and rock with more intelligence than you give it credit for. Never has obsession been so masculine. Where Sting whined plaintively through "Every Breath You Take," Alice said, 'Baby, you're one hell of a lay, but I know trouble when I see it.'

When Poison was out as a single I was so into it.  I bought Trash on cassette based on loving the Poison video and listened the shit out of it (litterally, the thing won't play anymore).  .... but it's not his most intellectual endeavour (and as intelligent as he seems to be from interviews etc, he never really tried to put too much of that into his music.... at least in the latter half of his career).  A lot of wincey lyrical moments on that LP (to give an idea - one song was co-written with Jon Bon Jovi).  Took me a few years to notice that, I was something like 11 when it came out and I was blinded by the attitude/leather.  If you listen to the whole record it actually comes off whinier than Sting (almost every track is about some woman that's doing him wrong or general relationship neediness ... rather unmetal actually... maybe, in retrospect, that's the joke). ... and of course there's the requisite thinly-veiled penis metaphor song capping off the track listing.

[Highlander]

Did the same thing with BDB when it came out... always threw me when I got the vinyl as the track listing is different...

[uwe]

When Poison was out as a single I was so into it.  I bought Trash on cassette based on loving the Poison video and listened the shit out of it (litterally, the thing won't play anymore).  .... but it's not his most intellectual endeavour (and as intelligent as he seems to be from interviews etc, he never really tried to put too much of that into his music.... at least in the latter half of his career).  A lot of wincey lyrical moments on that LP (to give an idea - one song was co-written with Jon Bon Jovi).  Took me a few years to notice that, I was something like 11 when it came out and I was blinded by the attitude/leather.  If you listen to the whole record it actually comes off whinier than Sting (almost every track is about some woman that's doing him wrong or general relationship neediness ... rather unmetal actually... maybe, in retrospect, that's the joke). ... and of course there's the requisite thinly-veiled penis metaphor song capping off the track listing.

Vincent has always been a hopeless romantic ... Only Women Bleed! He might have had fantasies about killing his women off and putting them in refrigerators (keeps them fresh), but he all loved them dearly.

There's three metal/heavy rock themes throughout history:

1. demons & wizards/sword & scorcery (= escapism)

2. cars and paaaaartying out (= nihilism)

3. wimmin and how they always break your heart (= angst and self-pity).

That covers the main emotional regions of any adolescent pretty much. And after all: IT IS music fpr adolescents. Some of them - like me - just never grow out of it!

[gweimer]

Vincent has always been a hopeless romantic ... Only Women Bleed! He might have had fantasies about killing his women off and putting them in refrigerators (keeps them fresh), but he all loved them dearly.

I think that's part of his appeal.  He mixes romance and the macabre.

[uwe]

Most women dig Alice Cooper - they think he's cute somehow. He has that loner/outcast/underdog appeal and a wry humor schooled by being the kid that was always picked on. I can chase Edith out of the house with Rob Halford ("why is he always pressing his voice so much?") and David Coverdale ("those lyrics, does he ever sing about anything else?!"), but she always likes it when I put on Alice, even the weird stuff. She happily sings along to Cold Ethyl and Department of Youth.

[Highlander]

... Some of them - like me - just never grow out of it!

[Peter Pan] Since when did any of us grow up, mentally... Now... on... 'til dawn comes...! [/Peter Pan]

(where did I leave my sanatogen...? I need a nap...)

[Psycho Bass Guy]

There's three metal/heavy rock themes throughout history:

1. demons & wizards/sword & scorcery (= escapism)

2. cars and paaaaartying out (= nihilism)

3. wimmin and how they always break your heart (= angst and self-pity).

That covers the main emotional regions of any adolescent pretty much. And after all: IT IS music fpr adolescents.

You forgot the biggest: aggression. Moreso than any other theme, anger at an array of things not related to women is the most overriding arc. Very few (Anselmo-era) Pantera, (good) Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax etc songs address any of the three you listed. From alienation to existentialism, there's plenty to be pissed about and lots of music about it.

RE: Alice Cooper's "Trash": Outside of "Poison" the title covers the rest of the album aptly. The way Uwe just mentioned Poison and and mindless heavy metal together, it sounded like that's what he meant in regards to the song.

[gweimer]

You forgot the biggest: aggression. Moreso than any other theme, anger at an array of things not related to women is the most overriding arc. Very few (Anselmo-era) Pantera, (good) Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax etc songs address any of the three you listed. From alienation to existentialism, there's plenty to be pissed about and lots of music about it.

RE: Alice Cooper's "Trash": Outside of "Poison" the title covers the rest of the album aptly. The way Uwe just mentioned Poison and and mindless heavy metal together, it sounded like that's what he meant in regards to the song.

Maybe it's my age, and maybe I'm becoming a curmudgeon, but I see a lot of newer metal, especially that being perpetuated by what are now middle-aged businessmen, morphing into a parasitic market strategy.  When I was younger, "Paranoid" from Black Sabbath was a song that had a lot of impact on me.  They were my generation, speaking to my time.  Now, I see bands trolling the gravy train and keeping the cash coming in.  And, again, maybe it's just me, but the lyrics are no longer seeking answers and looking for hope, but basically looking downward and giving up.  Teen-age angst, depression and despair are a cash cow for a lot of bands that might not have any other viable means of income.  I see metal becoming very exploitive.

[lowend1]

Blame it on Cobain. To expand further would require a long dissertation of the "woe is me" / entitlement mentality.

[gweimer]

Blame it on Cobain. To expand further would require a long dissertation of the "woe is me" / entitlement mentality.

I can't argue that.  The paramount anti-hero.  Ironic that in the wake of his demise, rose one of the most popular bands in the past 20 years.

[Pilgrim]

Maybe it's my age, and maybe I'm becoming a curmudgeon, but I see a lot of newer metal, especially that being perpetuated by what are now middle-aged businessmen, morphing into a parasitic market strategy.

Uh, you think???

And rap stars have a certain set of duds to wear - and a certain number of scantily clad women dancing behind them.
If a rap guy ever wears his ball cap with the brim forward, he'll get drummed out of the genre.
And all the ball caps have to have flat brims.
And female pop stars do their best madonna/Beyonce/Katy Perry costume impressions.
And the guys in country HAVE to wear hats with the brim mashed down in front and back.
And for that matter, blues guys often wear skinny-brim hats.

Seems like every genre has its exploitation/uniform standards.

After discovering him at the Grammy awards, I do enjoy Bruno Mars. He may wear the hat, but he wears one all the time, and he crosses musical boundaries.  And he has actual talent, and can sing!

[westen44]

I never could stand Nirvana.  But I'd gladly take that over 90% of the crap out there now calling itself music.  In fact, I really like Paul and the Nirvana remnant--Sirvana. 

[lowend1]

Uh, you think???

And rap stars have a certain set of duds to wear - and a certain number of scantily clad women dancing behind them.
If a rap guy ever wears his ball cap with the brim forward, he'll get drummed out of the genre.
And all the ball caps have to have flat brims.
And female pop stars do their best madonna/Beyonce/Katy Perry costume impressions.
And the guys in country HAVE to wear hats with the brim mashed down in front and back.
And for that matter, blues guys often wear skinny-brim hats.

Seems like every genre has its exploitation/uniform standards.

After discovering him at the Grammy awards, I do enjoy Bruno Mars. He may wear the hat, but he wears one all the time, and he crosses musical boundaries.  And he has actual talent, and can sing!

You forgot the guys in the smelly knit skull caps. And all the hip gentile women wearing schmattas that seem to populate the local Whole Foods.