I'm awake and pissed off, not a good combo if you have my attention.

[lowend1]

Chrysler has been making crap cars since the Seventies. Then in the Eighties they bought AMC Jeep and made them crap too. Obama should have let them go bankrupt again. Chevrolet and Chrysler are not "the American auto industry. Subarus, Hondas, and Toyotas are all made in America now.

And the car that has the most American made content?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/toyota-camry-recognized-as-most-american-made-car-on-the-road/

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/07/04/cars-com-reveals-american-made-index-for-2012/

Interesting quote from Missouri Governor Matt Blunt:"Chrysler, Ford and GM – produce more than half the cars assembled here, ... and employ two-thirds of America's autoworkers" So does that mean the the automakers with non-American names employ one-third of America's autoworkers and produce almost half of the cars assembled here?

How many Chrysler products have you owned? I would imagine that the determination that "Chrysler has been making crap cars since the Seventies" must have been prompted by extensive personal experience... right? Likewise, I guess you have owned a fair number of Jeep products as well, having made comparisons between the Jeep vehicles produced before Chrysler bought AMC/Jeep (which was pretty much owned by Renault at the time) and after.

[Pilgrim]

I know Chrysler has had their weak points; two of them are AC systems (on anything and everything made by Chrysler), and the transmissions in the early minivans. Overall, though, I disagree with the statement that Chrysler makes crap.  I specifically disagree with it on the Jeep line.  For example, I have never met an owner of a Jeep Cherokee that didn't love it...while driving it to very high mileage. 

We could just as easily pan the incredibly awful styling and uncomfortable interiors on GM cars throughout the 1980's and 90's (leading pretty directly to the decline of GM), Audi's silly insistence on putting an automatic used in VW Vanagons into their turbo 5-cylinder sedans, and sundry other mistakes made by manufacturers.

Every manufacturer has had their hits and misses.

I'm still betting that Scott's problem will turn out to be a loose connection or other mistake made while installing the ignition stuff.  It's one of the very few places there could be a problem that causes his symptoms.

[Lightyear]

I've driven a Caravan for years - about 3K monthly.  This one is about ready to be turned in @ 5 years +  and 165K.  It's been a good one - one AC switch and one power window.  It has it share rattles and squeaks but it has held up well to a grueling life.  My 03 Liberty has not been as good but still it has been decent - the extended warranty paid off big on this one. 

We're planning on a new Subaru Outback in the Spring.  My daughter's Forestor has been problem free for the 4 years we have had it - 'nuff said.  I'm not spending my money on Chrysler or GM.  I applaud Ford on not taking bail out money while still managing to have decent vehicles.

Scott, does NY have a lemon law?  TX does - i think 3 tries on one problem and it can be invoked.  Regardless a trail of certified letters to very senior personnel works wonders.

[Denis]

Lots of generalized statements in this thread.

I have a 1991 Dodge turbodiesel and the original AC quit blowing cold 2 years ago. The truck has almost 300,000 miles on it.

I put 265,000 miles on my '89 Dodge Dakota V-6 before I let it go. Transmission needed a rebuilt at almost 100,000 and the warranty transferred from the original owner to me so, the rebuild cost me $100. From 100,000 miles to 265,000 miles the trans never gave me another bit of trouble.

Subarus are great until you need an exhaust system. Those are around $2000. From what I read, Subaru's quality rating as slipped a little in the past few years.

Toyota's quality has slipped a lot in the past 10 years in its quest to become the largest auto manufacturer in the world.

In the early 1990s my boss bitched and moaned about her VW Golf. Sold it and got a Honda Accord but would never bitch about the car even though it went to the shop at least 3 times because the driver's side window kept locking in the up or down position.

A friend of many years knew a guy who worked in the plant where the Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon and Plymouth Laser were built. Same assembly line, same people and yet the "American" Eagle and Plymouth garnered 3 times the complaints than the "Japanese" Mitsubishi.

I doubt Scott's problem is the ignition switch. It was replaced and it sounds like the same thing happened (although every now and then a new part is bad). Something leading UP TO the ignition switch could be the issue, though I doubt it.

Was the battery replaced recently, Scott?

[dadagoboi]

Was the battery replaced recently, Scott?

Check the battery cable to battery terminal connections.  Looseness or corrosion, especially at the negative connection can cause the symptoms you're having.

[eb2]

I have had a few fits with my VW.  God love them, they keep taking care of the dang thing on their dime.  But after a while, and a class action, I grow a bit tired of them.  But I like a wagon, and can't justify the Subaru.  And don't try to find a Subaru Legacy wagon that isn't loaded up with the Outback package.

Cars are all poop eventually.

[GonzoBass]

I was gonna say battery connection too...

Take 'em off, wire brush 'em down till they're shiny
(terminals and inside the connectors),
reinstall 'em tight,
then smear 'em with a good coat of Vasoline to keep them from corroding.

I hope it's that easy of a fix for you!

My wife's daily driver 2001 Toyota 4Runner is over 270,000,
my 1993 Toyota Tercel is coming up on 200,000
and I'm still wrenchin' on my Mom's 1984 Toyota Tercel
and I have NO idea how many miles are on that thing
but it's still going.

[godofthunder]

 The van is a '08 Caravan. I bought is about 12 months ago. What fries me is as I understand it all they did was try and get it to fail again ie starting and shutting off the engine. It doesn't sound to me like they checked their work on the ignition installation, which as someone pointed out should be the first thing they check. What gets me is that they sent me home with this thing. I went straight to Dodge with this I am done talking to the dealer, it is clear they can't be trusted. The case I opened and a letter from my attorney should be enough to get their attention.

[drbassman]

I had the same problem years ago with a VW Rabbit and it was the fuse box.  It would start some days, some days not.  Lots of electrical bugs and issues and it was only a year old.  The problem?  Water was leaking into the cabin, under the dash and corroding the fuse box.  When it rained, I didn't even want to drive the damn thing.  Once they figured it out (after 5 or 6 trips to the dealer!), they sealed the base of the radio antenna where the leak was, replaced the fuse box and the car ran great for years afterward.  Just a thought!  Best wishes and good luck!

[patman]

I actually had the same problem with my Saturn...turned out it was a faulty battery cable.  Cheap fix, but it took 4 or 5 tries to find it.

[the mojo hobo]

How many Chrysler products have you owned? I would imagine that the determination that "Chrysler has been making crap cars since the Seventies" must have been prompted by extensive personal experience... right? Likewise, I guess you have owned a fair number of Jeep products as well, having made comparisons between the Jeep vehicles produced before Chrysler bought AMC/Jeep (which was pretty much owned by Renault at the time) and after.

Actually I have never owned a Chrysler product, and likely never will, but I did work at a Toyota/AMC Jeep Eagle dealership for a few years in the Eighties, and there was a huge difference in quality between the two. It wasn't uncommon for the Jeep Cherokees to need repairs before putting them on the lot. The Renault Alliance has got to be worst car ever built in America, they would break on test drives and the resale value was zero.

OTOH my dad had a Chrysler 300 which he liked and it seemed to be a pretty good car, but he kept his '91 Toyota Cressida for the rest of his life.

[the mojo hobo]

I also want to say: Any car that can't unlock the doors from the inside without power has a major design flaw.

[uwe]

Chinese cars are best. I've never had issues with my Volvos even when they were still Fords. In fact, they became better during the Ford era and they've even improved from that since the Chinese took over a few years ago.

[lowend1]

Sadly, the dealers are often the weak link. The pool of mechanics and service writers does not produce the number of quality candidates that it should, for a variety of reasons. It's not simply technical knowledge - sometimes it's that the tech lacks simple common sense and diagnostic reasoning. These are things you don't get out of a book. They don't know how to trace a problem once their computer diagnostics fail to give them an answer, or if the problem is intermittent. The common sense thing is an issue that dogs our workforce as a whole - I see it everywhere, every day. I can't count how many times I have to follow up on things I really shouldn't need to. Another problem is that sometimes a dealer will give warranty work to the lower echelon techs because they make less money, and they would rather have the "A" tech working on a car for someone who is paying top dollar. (Warranty work is paid at a discounted rate by the manufacturer, IIRC)

Scott did the correct thing in calling Ma Mopar on this one. The dealer bailed out on him. I had a friend that did this (called the number in the back of his owner's manual) and the dealer nearly crapped his pants. He said that when somebody calls that number, Chrysler hammers them big time and will sometimes "punish" them for screwing up on a repair or service. I'm not sure what Scott's original issue was, but the time proximity to that repair, plus the fact that it involved the ignition system makes the work suspect. Scott, could you be more specific than "replaced the ignition system"? That's a pretty large area, encompassing everything from the battery on out. OTOH, sometimes stuff just happens. I once brought a 1999 Voyager to the local guy for an oil change, and when I picked it up the trans was in limp mode (stuck in 2nd gear) and all the dash gauges and LEDs were pegged. Took it to the dealer and they replaced the PTC (powertrain control module) and (TCM transmission control module) under warranty. Pretty odd that it failed just when I had the oil changed.

Every manufacturer designs or builds a clunker here and there. I spent 15 years of my adult life in the automotive aftermarket parts and service business. I sold alot of parts and wrote alot of estimates, and while certain models (engines, transmissions) might be prone to certain problems, I never saw an "across the board" situation with one manufacturer. Volvos ate exhaust systems, GM mid-size cars were prone to drum brake backing plates rotting out in certain areas of the country, Subaru brake calipers were a nightmare. "4-6-8" multiple displacement Cadillac motors were poorly designed, as were the GM diesels that went into the passenger cars. The bodies of Japanese cars from the 70s and early 80s would literally rot away around the their engines (when was the last time you saw a '78 Accord tooling around town?). A simple search will net you hours of fun reading on notorious recalls and premature failures in the automotive arena. BTW, in 2011, the most recalled car brands were... Honda and Toyota.

[lowend1]

I specifically disagree with it on the Jeep line.  For example, I have never met an owner of a Jeep Cherokee that didn't love it...while driving it to very high mileage.

I just inherited a '93 Cherokee 2WD with almost 125k on the clock. The Jeep fanatics tell me that they consider that to be barely broken in.