Need help with 4003 saddles

[drbassman]

I put some TI flats on my new 4003 and they are so nice on this bass.  However, I like really low action and I have the bridge/saddles all the way down to the point the two allen adjustment screws will fall out.  Any good way to get the saddles any lower?  I'm about to loosen the strings and peek under the bridge to see if there's any more room to lower it.  I don't want to file the notches in the saddles unless I can have a backup set for future use.  Any suggestions RIC folks?

[godofthunder]

Ah the honeymoon is over  I know I did something with my since sold 4003, I can't remember what it was

[drbassman]

Ah the honeymoon is over  I know I did something with my since sold 4003, I can't remember what it was

On the contrary, I'm still lovin' the sound and feel of it.  So this bass ho isn't ready to jettison it.  I just want those strings lower.  The good part is, if I don't lower them any more, the low tension TIs still make it pretty darn easy to play.  I'm just being fussy.

I did find saddles on the Rickenbacker Page for $5 a piece.  So, I might order a backup set and have at it!  Got lots o' files in the shop!!!   

[drbassman]

Side bar on the thin wall truss rod wrench:  it came yesterday and the cavity is still too shallow to allow it to slip on.  I can barely get a thin knife blade slid down behind the nuts and the cavity wall.  Really dumb design or execution.  Or both.

My open end 1/4" wrenches won't fit either.  Not enough room to turn them.  So, I might just throw in the towel on the idea of neck adjusting for now.  Got more important things to do!

[ilan]

Assuming the neck is dead straight (Rics unlike Fenders should be adjusted to zero relief), I'd deepen the saddle grooves.

If it's not straight, I'd force the thin-wall wrench on the nut and adjust the neck. Don't use too much force... this worked fine for me on a couple of Ric basses.

When the neck is dead straight, you might not need to lower the bridge saddles.

[drbassman]

Assuming the neck is dead straight (Rics unlike Fenders should be adjusted to zero relief), I'd deepen the saddle grooves.

If it's not straight, I'd force the thin-wall wrench on the nut and adjust the neck. Don't use too much force... this worked fine for me on a couple of Ric basses.

When the neck is dead straight, you might not need to lower the bridge saddles.

Thanks Ilan.   Right now, the neck is dead straight, no relief.  I just want to be able to adjust it in the future because the weather/humidity extremes in upstate NY affect my basses every year.  I'm just going to wait and see what happens at the next high swing in the weather.

[SeanS]

Assuming the neck is dead straight (Rics unlike Fenders should be adjusted to zero relief), I'd deepen the saddle grooves.

If it's not straight, I'd force the thin-wall wrench on the nut and adjust the neck. Don't use too much force... this worked fine for me on a couple of Ric basses.

When the neck is dead straight, you might not need to lower the bridge saddles.

+1, I would deepen the saddles, you've plenty of up adjustment if needs be. Rics are the same as fenders, in the fact it's wood, maths and angles, these factors are not fashion conscious or brand dictated.

[ilan]

Yes but with a fender (or any other bolt-on construction bass) you can easily shim the neck. That's the downside of neck-thru design, you can't change the neck angle.

[SeanS]

Is that the reason why a Fender shouldn't be adjusted dead straight and a Ric should.

[ilan]

It seems logical to me that all necks should have some relief, to allow the vibrating string to "bloom". But for some reason RIC recommends setting the neck with no relief, and it works. You can of course have some curve on a Ric neck.

[dadagoboi]

Is that the reason why a Fender shouldn't be adjusted dead straight and a Ric should.

Rics are the same as fenders, in the fact it's wood, maths and angles, these factors are not fashion conscious or brand dictated.

IMO, you were right the first time.  First step of any setup on any instrument involves getting the neck as straight as possible and leveling the frets if necessary.  Relief should be an option, not a necessity.

Changing neck angle with shims gets saddles to where they can be adjusted properly by using the adjusting screws without filing the saddles.

[SeanS]

Yes, I thought I was too, I've just adjusted my Jazz neck to dead straight and it sounds just like a 4001

[drbassman]

IMO, you were right the first time.  First step of any setup on any instrument involves getting the neck as straight as possible and leveling the frets if necessary.  Relief should be an option, not a necessity.

Changing neck angle with shims gets saddles to where they can be adjusted properly by using the adjusting screws without filing the saddles.

Carlo is right on.  I like my necks dead straight.  On a new bass, if some frets in the middle are high, that's when you often need relief to stop rattling.  I always level frets on necks that I build from the 1st. down to the last one on the heel.  I find that gives me room to lower the strings as much as I want before getting rattle at the heel prematurely.  There's nothing more annoying to me than lower the strings and having the heel frets too high and messing up the action higher up the neck.

The nut slot depths are also important. I've found some stock nuts on new basses are cut really shallow and that can contribute to high action on the first 5 frets.  This is an area where caution is important cuz if you lower the slots too much then you rattle at the top end.  It's a delicate dance between fret leveling, nut slot depth and relief!  Takes a lot of practice and patience to get it right, but in the end, it ain't rocket science, but it does take knowledge of how things work and line up and willingness to learn.

[drbassman]

BTW, on bass necks not finished like the 4003, I also have found that you can tap down the odd high fret with a fret punch tool like SM sells.  It's a nice tool that you can use without loosening or removing the strings.  I have one and it's really nice as it can help avoid hand leveling frets when all you need to do is tap them down tighter in the slot.  You can use a fret hammer too if you loosen the strings and move them out of the way.  You'd be surprised how many frets on a new bass are not always seated tight in the slots.  Even with my industrial fret press, I find I have to go over each one and give them extra taps, especially on edges,  with a hammer.  Once I do that, leveling is much easier.

Here it is.  Overpirced as usual at $21, but well worth it.  You could make your own if you could find a brass punch.

[dadagoboi]

Nice tips, Doc!  That fret punch is sweet.

Nut slot depth is of major importance in getting intonation right on the first five frets.  Superglue gel can be used to partially fill a slot that's too deep so you can refile it to proper depth.