Lacey Act news

[Dave W]

Posting this here since the Gibson raid is the source of our interest. Please, let's avoid making this a political discussion.

Bill introduced to de-criminalize the Lacey Act and remove any reference to "foreign law." IMHO this would be a good thing. No idea yet if it will have a chance of passing.

Lacey Act update and how it affects you
This is from an acoustic guitar builders' forum. Don't know the OP but he seems well informed. If nothing else, it shows the kind of pitfalls a builder needs to be concerned with as the law is presently being enforced. It also mentions a different bill which would provide some relief.

[mc2NY]

Posting this here since the Gibson raid is the source of our interest. Please, let's avoid making this a political discussion.

Bill introduced to de-criminalize the Lacey Act and remove any reference to "foreign law." IMHO this would be a good thing. No idea yet if it will have a chance of passing.

Lacey Act update and how it affects you
This is from an acoustic guitar builders' forum. Don't know the OP but he seems well informed. If nothing else, it shows the kind of pitfalls a builder needs to be concerned with as the law is presently being enforced. It also mentions a different bill which would provide some relief.

I read that Henry J. tried to have it amened to the "Cagney & Lacey Act" and allow lesbians to bring in ANY foreign wood....but the Russian mob objected to "lesbians" and "wood" being mentioned in any bill and said it would negatively affect all the young Russin girls working in the U.S.  Apparently the DC politicians agreed.

[Dave W]

I read that Henry J. tried to have it amened to the "Cagney & Lacey Act" and allow lesbians to bring in ANY foreign wood....but the Russian mob objected to "lesbians" and "wood" being mentioned in any bill and said it would negatively affect all the young Russina girls working in the U.S.  Apparently the DC politicians agreed.

You forgot the 

[lowend1]

This seemed to be the most recent thread on this, so...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/12/gibson-guitar-case-drags-on-with-no-sign-criminal-charges/?test=latestnews

[Dave W]

This seemed to be the most recent thread on this, so...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/12/gibson-guitar-case-drags-on-with-no-sign-criminal-charges/?test=latestnews

Mukasey of all people should know how long federal cases sometimes take before a decision to charge or not is reached. Especially white-collar cases. I just read about a mortgage fraud case here, one of the defendants pled guilty last month to fraud committed between 2005 and 2008. She wasn't indicted until last fall.

It's not right and I hope Gibson's case doesn't take that long to resolve but it often happens that way.

[Barklessdog]

Its tough on where to draw a line on where to decriminalize it. I think there should still be stiff penalties where it comes to endangered wildlife.


The Black Rhino now officially considered extinct.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-10/africa/world_africa_rhino-extinct-species-report_1_white-rhino-black-rhino-extinction?_s=PM:AFRICA

[uwe]

Given that 41 Native American people just achieved a settlement for 1 billion bucks from the US Treasury in the wake of tribe, no class actions 100 (!) years old, white man Henry is not doing too bad. Yet. Think of how much all that confiscated ebony and rosewood will be worth upon release in a century from now, by then well dry-aged too.

[Dave W]

Its tough on where to draw a line on where to decriminalize it. I think there should still be stiff penalties where it comes to endangered wildlife.


The Black Rhino now officially considered extinct.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-10/africa/world_africa_rhino-extinct-species-report_1_white-rhino-black-rhino-extinction?_s=PM:AFRICA

These trees aren't going to become extinct.

No matter how Gibson's situation has been misrepresented, the regulations in India that led to last year's raids aren't about conservation anyway. If the trees were endangered, India wouldn't allow unprocessed rosewood veneer to be exported.

The regulations were about value added by manufacturing in India. It's a type of protectionist measure. You can import Indian rosewood (thicker than veneer) if there's some manufacturing done to it in India. The seized wood was just rough sawn boards. Henry even referred to them as his raw materials.

[Dave W]

Given that 41 Native American people just achieved a settlement for 1 billion bucks from the US Treasury in the wake of tribe, no class actions 100 (!) years old, white man Henry is not doing too bad. Yet. Think of how much all that confiscated ebony and rosewood will be worth upon release in a century from now, by then well dry-aged too.

A century from now they will still be Indian rosewood and ebony, the same fretboard woods that were considered inferior less than 20 years ago.

You can still buy Gaboon or Macassar ebony or Pau Ferro, most luthiers consider them easily superior to the Indian woods. Why isn't Gibson using these instead of "baked maple" and other exotic woods no one in the guitar community has heard of before? Why haven't any of the political commentators pointed this out? Because they don't know shit from Shinola about guitars, they only know political opportunism.

Henry is right about factories in Asia using the Indian woods, though. He's saying this to point out that the enforcement actions against Gibson are unreasonable, and he has the right to say that. But those factories are using those woods because they're cheap! You want to keep your reputation as a premier American brand, why are you pointing out that the Chinese are using the same woods? Why aren't you using better woods?

[uwe]

Pau Ferro is nice - the SG-Z had it. My new Explorer has a baked maple fretboard, hope it doesn't shrink so much in our dry climate and have the bass get all spiky. The newisch TB IV with the Preciosa fingerboard has become nearly unplayable, it shrunk so much so fast. Have to take it to the luthier to have the fretends filed down.

[Dave W]

Too bad about your experience with the Preciosa. I wonder if others have had the problem.

The alternatives they're using now aren't necessarily bad, it just rankles me that Henry is going around talking like the relatively cheap Indian woods are essential. They're not.

Everything is built to a price point, however low or high. Gibson is no different. But I would expect them to pay the price for premium woods, especially considering how their overall prices have risen..

[lowend1]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/18/law-could-be-used-to-seize-musicians-guitars-may-need-fix-senator-says/

[Dave W]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/18/law-could-be-used-to-seize-musicians-guitars-may-need-fix-senator-says/

Nothing new about that. Fish & Wildlife has already made it clear that they're not targeting musicians. Alexander is trying to stir up trouble over a non-issue.

The Lacey Act is about trafficking in illegal raw material. The feds have not used the act to target finished products that have already been bought at retail.

[the mojo hobo]

The Lacey Act was originally intended to protect wildlife as Ted Nugent recently discovered:

http://www.lsonews.com/hunting-news/2127-edited-for-web-by-conor-harrison

[nofi]

this comes on the heals of a little 'meeting' nugent had with secret servive agents over some remarks he made in a recent speech. btw, isn't the responsible hunter supposed to track wounded game and finish it. ted figured that was too hard so he would just shoot something else. whadda guy, . my total disdain for him runs deep...