Is IEM the way to go?

[ack1961]

I know little to nothing about any of this live sound stuff...
I'm trying to help the kids out getting their practice space ironed out..OK, OUR practice space (the old man needs his fun, too).
They practice (sometimes as many as 5-6) upstairs in our guest room (renamed the Jam room), but we're all having trouble hearing each other (even when it's just my 2 boys on guitar/bass & drums).  The drums just crush everything else in this room (roughly 17'x20' carpeted) and it becomes a wall of sound.

Currently, I have a 16 channel board with XLR outputs going to 2 powered monitors:
- 180W as a monitor solely for the drummer - bringing vocal, guitars and bass from the board
- 300W we use as a floor monitor - same output, but for everyone else in the room
Unfortunately, my son's Vox guitar amp doesn't have an output (other than headphone out), so I need to use a kick drum mic/stand to pump it through the mixer.  It all sounds fine until everyone starts getting a little too excited, then it becomes a tricky to distinguish instruments.

I was then thinking about IEM's for the kids for Christmas, but I'm struggling to understand how/if they'll be able to achieve a better mix through them. I am getting concerned about the noise levels in that room (from their hearing standpoint).  I got them some Etymotic Research earplugs, but they don't always use them.

Are IEM's a viable option to start researching to solve this issue?  We're out of rooms at the house.
Thanks,
Steve

[patman]

I don't have any experience with IEM's , but I am really interested in hearing what people have to say about them...

Have been concerned with sound levels on stage, and IEM's seem like they could be a solution.  They are also lighter and smaller than the current JBL EON that I am using.

[dadagoboi]

Ramblings of a bitter ex teen:

Why you need monitors at all in a room that small is a mystery to me.  You're just escalating the arms race...they probably don't listen to each other any way.  Better off getting a smaller drum kit for practice so everyone can turn down.  In the long run it will make them all better musicians.  Limitations are good.

[gearHed289]

In my opinion, you should only be putting vocals through the monitors. It sounds to me like everyone is competing with the drums, which can be tough to deal with. A plexi shield will help a LOT. If you get the drums under control, you're in good shape since you can obviously turn down the guitars and bass.

My band uses IEMs both live and in rehearsal, and I love them. Same mix no matter where you stand. How much money you got??? 

[ack1961]

Originally, the floor monitor was used solely for vocals, and everyone brought their own guitar amp.  The room dynamics are part of the issue here - the 45 degree half walls on two sides, the low ceiling (8 ft.) just make everything bounce right back to the center of the room.
The other part of the problem came when junior got good (and very loud) on the drums. He couldn't hear vocals or guitars, so I used an old 180W bass amp to use as a monitor strictly for the drummer to hear vox/guitars.  My bass rig is right next to him (and oriented towards him), so he gets about 600W of bass aimed right at his coconut - he feels that fine enough.

This is our only drum kit (and has subsequently cost me a small fortune in cymbals), and he uses it for practice and gigs. Getting a smaller one for practice is not going to happen. Besides, he's 13 and wants to rock to Sabbath and The Who, not play any of this synthesized pansy music that most of the kids are listening to these days.  For this, I am thankful and look for another solution other than turning him down.

If IEM's are the wrong tree to bark up, then that's fine - I'm just curious.  As for price range, I was hoping to get both kids outfitted for <$800.  Not sure if that's possible or not.

The plexiglass is interesting...I will look into that a bit.
It must sound weird to most, but I'd sell a nut to keep these guys (and their friends) upstairs and playing instruments rather than driving around looking for stuff to do - sometimes, Jam Room overkill is a lure.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

This is our only drum kit (and has subsequently cost me a small fortune in cymbals), and he uses it for practice and gigs. Getting a smaller one for practice is not going to happen. Besides, he's 13 and wants to rock to Sabbath and The Who, not play any of this synthesized pansy music that most of the kids are listening to these days.  For this, I am thankful and look for another solution other than turning him down.

He's going to need to learn to reign in his playing on his kit. Heavy-handed drummers who play that hard tend to get worse the longer the play if they can't hear/ listen to other players. You've already got way too much power for that small of a room. Unless you go with custom sealed molds, ($250-300 per set JUST for the earpiece molds) all IEM's will do is cause hearing damage.

[gearHed289]

Unless you get go with custom sealed molds, ($250-300 per set JUST for the earpiece molds) all IEM's will do is cause hearing damage.

I have to disagree. I've been using the stock, black foam that came with my Shure SE425s for a year now, and they isolate very well. Molds would be better, but I don't personally feel the need. They ship with 3 different sizes, as well as some other misc. neoprene ones, etc. The 425s are $300 a pair. My whole PSM900 system - transmitter/receiver/buds - goes for about $1300. I got a small discount through Shure.

[TBird1958]

We use them live and at rehearsal, I really them!
Specifically at rehearsal our drummer is the loudest ( he actually isn't a loud player tho, just average) thing in my typical basement. Our vocals, keys and guitar don't make any audible signal except what goes into the IEM. I don't put the bass into the IEM for rehearsal as it is present enough in the room tho I don't play loud.
The benifits are that you can really hear what your bandmates are doing and easily correct mistakes, save your hearing, not piss off the neighbours quite as much, not have to lug monitors or set them up, not trip on monitors when you're onstage.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I have to disagree. I've been using the stock, black foam that came with my Shure SE425s for a year now, and they isolate very well.

That may be, but you're also not dealing with that amount of volume in such a small space.

[Pilgrim]

Given the setting, it sounds like IEMs would serve more as ear plugs than as listening devices.

Playing loud is fun, but it does sound like the overall sound level needs to be controlled.

[TBird1958]

Given the setting, it sounds like IEMs would serve more as ear plugs than as listening devices.

Playing loud is fun, but it does sound like the overall sound level needs to be controlled.

To some extent they do serve as ear plugs Al, they definately cut off the highs from cymbals and when you spend the night with your left ear a few feet from them on a small stage I'm very glad I have them. You really can control the volume and for me that helps what's left of my hearing, we really aren't a loud band - it doesn't serve our purpose to be too loud as it drives people (especially women) away and then nobody dances......So we watch it with the volume.   

[Chris P.]

An advice for European IEM-users. I heard stories about the frequencies used by those devices. It seems a lot will change and those frequencies will be used by other devices, so IEM and other wireless stuff will be useless in the next few years. I guess you have to buy new ones or manufacturers will have to offer upgrades or something.
I heard those rumors, but I can't confirm them.

[gearHed289]

This is what we're dealing with in the US:

http://fohonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3279&Itemid=1

Real bummer for people that already own lots of older wireless gear.

[nofi]

'used for public safety AND new 4g wireless stuff'. i bet i know which of those two is the real benefactor.

" when corporate america throws its mighty shield..."

[patman]

What is the practical difference between the $600 Shure set-up and the $1300 Shure set-up?