Music videos that feature EB0 to EB4 and SG variant basses...

[Granny Gremlin]

Sounds like Black Sabbath to me.
The guitars, drums. The way he sings with the compression in his voice.

You're right.   
I should have listened more than just the first 20 seconds ;-)
It surprises me to hear RJD sing with that much compression. Didn't expect him to do that in this era already.

How can you not tell from the hihat in the intro right off the bat?  The attempt at making it more interesting kinda kills the momentum there; doesn't feel like the band is locked for those da-nuhs. Just because ya can doesn't mean ya should.

Also, though he's givin'r similarly (though I'd say the metaphorical gain turned down a bit) with the vocal overdrive, the voice is not that close to Ozzy at all.  Ozzy has that sorta scream-whine thing going on and less deep.  Guitars also aren't like triple tracked and verbed out.  The whole thing is comparatively dry.  Ironic, because the reverb has become a major part of what the kids these days take from Sabbath.

[Basvarken]

Also, though he's givin'r similarly (though I'd say the metaphorical gain turned down a bit) with the vocal overdrive, the voice is not that close to Ozzy at all.  Ozzy has that sorta scream-whine thing going on and less deep. 

Of course. I'd never mistake Ozzy for RJD.
But after those first 20 seconds I thought it maybe was Mob Rules era Black Sabbath. 

[slinkp]

Ironic, because the reverb has become a major part of what the kids these days take from Sabbath.

That is odd. I'm not a deep cuts Sabbath fan, but from a casual listener perspective, I guess the first album was pretty wet, but the iconic stuff on Paranoid is quite dry. Very close miked and not much room nor plate verb.  Maybe it depends which Sabbath album you're aping!

[Basvarken]

Entwistle with his mutilated EB-0

[Granny Gremlin]

That is odd. I'm not a deep cuts Sabbath fan, but from a casual listener perspective, I guess the first album was pretty wet, but the iconic stuff on Paranoid is quite dry. Very close miked and not much room nor plate verb.  Maybe it depends which Sabbath album you're aping!

Fair - not as wet for sure, but there's still a bunch of verb in there (esp on guitar), and it's def not large (plate etc) but like they recorded it (or rather ran an echo send to) a bathroom (because it is definitely parallel) - super small room size and a bit of telephone/radio filtering of the frequency extremes (the verb is all midrange).   Crypto damp.  Though on second thought, I suppose what struck me about The Elves version wasn't that so much the verb (it's not that dry either) as the comparative fullness (not mid focused at all like Sabbath) and my brain just blamed the reverb, which I think is part of the reason - different type of reverb.  Huge reverbs are easy to spot if overused.  Small ones can be more subtle and present more like weird EQ if abused.  That's part of the charm of the record, the subconscious cognative dissonance between the closeness vs the general, not lack of, but much less than expected; an unnaturally low amount of bass (proximity effect isn't just applicable to microphones; our brains expect it and use it to judge distance).  They cut it on everything (much more than standard on/off HPF on channel strips or microphones themselves etc to keep things from getting too muddy); close micing, which I agree this is, is much boomier barring other processing.  An unsettling sound for an unsettling record.  Pretty genius, but not something that can be done all the time because it will get played out really quick.

[uwe]

Of course. I'd never mistake Ozzy for RJD.
But after those first 20 seconds I thought it maybe was Mob Rules era Black Sabbath. 

I got you Rob, even I didn't think you would mistake Ronnie with Ozzy. 

The guys in Elf were actually too groovy for Brit hard and heavy rock. That showed in this Sabbath cover and it showed in Blackmore's dissatisfaction after the Rainbow debut. He wanted "Barbarians at the Gate"-type musos - enter Powell, Bain and Carey -, the Elf guys were too playful for that.

Rob noted that once correctly, the (underrated) Rainbow debut has a much better band groove than the (overrated) ever-popular Rising album. Rising sounded a bit stiff to me, determined but rigid (as bands with Cozy Powell on the sticks often did). The debut had with Elf (sans their lead guitarist) a seasoned outfit, Rising was a new line-up finding its feet.

[Basvarken]

Yes, that first Rainbow album has a certain swing that was gone once Cozy Powell was put behind the kit.

Same goes for MSG. Simon Phillips (and Mo Foster) made the debut album refined and brilliant.
Once Powell took over it was all gone. His almost a-musical bashing just killed the vibe (for me).

I know there are lots of Cozy Powell fans who disagree with me. They probably like Lars Ulrich too.

[uwe]

Powell was a character, but I don't remember a single drum roll or bass drum pattern he played that actually surprised me. Live, he played everything too fast and heavy-handed, he really massacred the old Whitesnake songs.

[Basvarken]

Live, he played everything too fast and heavy-handed

This. Exactly.

[uwe]

Yet weirdly this on paper unlikely combination worked on a musical level (I thought), maybe it was that athletic energy that has always pervaded ELP's music.

[gearHed289]

Powell was a character, but I don't remember a single drum roll or bass drum pattern he played that actually surprised me. Live, he played everything too fast and heavy-handed, he really massacred the old Whitesnake songs.

I thought Cozy was great when I was a kid, but I know just what you guys mean. A couple of years ago, I revisited Robert Plants early solo albums (which I love) and Cozy's two tracks on the debut stand out from Phil Collins' as being pretty stiff.

[Basvarken]

Those ELP tracks are awful! 

I prefer this outfit with Powell in the ranks

[slinkp]

Fair - not as wet for sure, but there's still a bunch of verb in there (esp on guitar),

Yeah I'm listening to the original Sabbath "Iron Man" on headphones now, and you're right, there's more guitar reverb than I ever realized. The drums are quite tight and close-sounding though. Vocals too.  There's reverb on everything, it's not nearly as bone-dry as I had remembered - but it's still relatively subtle. It's a far cry from, say, "Black Sabbath" which is just drenched in 'verb on everything as a very pronounced effect.

I'm not sure which record your comments re. proximity effect and highpass filtering were about?

I finally listened to the live Elves video above - I'd missed it originally in this thread - and yeah, to me I would not have mistaken it for Sabbath - everybody phrases quite differently than their Sabbath counterparts, the solo section especially sounds totally un-Sabbath to me - but the verses are pretty close for a cover band, with a bit of their own stamp on it

I don't think I would even have realized that was RJD on vocals!  I've never heard anything of his from this long ago. He really did evolve his voice since then.

[Dave W]

How about an EB-6 demo?

Posted today on Carter Vintage's YT channel

[amptech]

Nice!