Bass Emporium Hiwatt

[Hornisse]

I have to admit not knowing a lot about Hi Watt amps.  Bass Emporium does have a nice DR105 and a couple of cabinets on their website.

http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=10434

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I have to admit not knowing a lot about Hi Watt amps.  Bass Emporium does have a nice DR105 and a couple of cabinets on their website.

http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=10434

It's a fake.

[Dave W]

It's a fake.

Please tell me more. I'm not interested in the amp, I'd just like to know how you would tell.

[Hornisse]

Please tell me more. I'm not interested in the amp, I'd just like to know how you would tell.

+1.  Bass Emporium was running an ad in Craigslist for a while advertising the same head and both cabinets.  I'm going there on Thursday and will give them whatever info you have on being able to tell it is a fake.

[birdie]

 

I have to admit not knowing a lot about Hi Watt amps.  Bass Emporium does have a nice DR105 and a couple of cabinets on their website.

http://www.bassemporium.com/item.php?sku=10434

Yes.They doo......

[birdie]

It's a fake.

That is my amp.Would you care to enlighten us with your superior knowledge about that particular amp? To unequivocally state that  "it's a fake" with out any corroboration or proof of any sort? It is NOT a fake. How do I know? because I have owned and played it for years. It has been maintained by any number of qualified people who would know a fake if it came across their bench. Try as I might, I can't recall you ever having been ny where near it.
I'm listening.........

[Psycho Bass Guy]

A cursory glance will tell you that while those may be Partridge-style transformers, the bell covers are wrong. Partridge transformers have open-varnished laminations with no covers. The male IEC socket for the power cord (which DID NOT EXIST in the mid 70's) is on a clean and unpitted piece of aluminum as well as fitted with pop rivets, indicating either factory installation or serious chassis modification. In the 70's, Hiwatt used the same bulgin jack/plug selector switch for power with a metal socket for the "kettle lead," so there should be two of them and a different power cord socket, one on each side of the back chassis, even on the Canadian models. The plastic jacks on the output are PC board mount types and not even made until the late 80's.

It looks like a parted-together forgery,(and they are quite common) or possibly an extensively rebuilt amp. It may sound excellent, but there is no way that's a stock 70's Hiwatt.  I have absolutely nothing to gain by my statements. I don't sell anything. I don't endorse any products or dealers for money or any other kind of compensation.  I call things like I see them. I am sorry that it bothered you so bad that I said your amp was a fake, but it is. That doesn't mean it sounds any worse or brings you any less satisfaction, that I'm accusing you of being dishonest or that it's even a bad amp. Judging by your response, you are most likely a victim of someone else's fraud.

http://www.vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=92695

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Obviously, birdie takes serious exception to my observations, however mine are accurate and I even went so far as to provide a link that describes one of the most common Hiwatt forgeries, complete with pictures which clearly illustrate what I have already verbally described. A further in-depth search on the vintage amp website linked to will only further show what I've already stated to be the case. I had no idea it was birdie's amp or I would never have made my comment about it authenticity public until after having extensively discussed it with him in private.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

This topic has bugged me, so I looked into it some more. There appears to be some information out there that would suggest some of the features of the Hiwatt I pointed out as signs of forgery are "correct" for the DR105, which was a Canadian-export only model. The trouble is those sources also conflict with each other and this amp on a few key points.  First, it is claimed that no voltage selector was used as Canadian electrical regulations would not allow for voltage selection, which is certainly not true today or otherwise modern switching power supplies would likewise be illegal there and I seriously doubt such regulation existed in the 70's either. Some "had" a hardwired power cable and supposedly required transformer bell covers and IEC sockets for power cables. The trouble with those ideas is this (as I pointed out earlier) is that the IEC socket standard did not exist in 1977 and that Partridge has NEVER made transformers that had bell covers, even on much larger and more potentially lethal applications.

I want birdie to know that I have never doubted his sincerity or honesty for a single moment, but I still have serious reservations about agreeing with him that his amp is in fact a stock 70's Hiwatt. I would also like to point out that there is a business in the UK that is notorious for faking vintage Hiwatts and Marshalls and then using online forums to try and legitimize the different "feature set" when compared with an inarguably genuine vintage Hiwatt by spreading disinformation about "model variations." The amp in question probably sounds exactly like a vintage Hiwatt if the parts are close to spec, but I simply cannot endorse it as being a 70's Hiwatt. Of course I could be wrong, so take any advice I give with a grain of salt and weigh it with your own discretion.

[Hornisse]

During my visit to Bass Emporium last Thursday the 7th I pointed out to John (the owner) that there had been a lot of discussion about that particular amp.  I mostly noted the modern output socket which, as Psycho Bass Guy pointed out, did not exist in '77.  Another thing I noticed about the serial number plate was it has the dreaded parenthesis which I've read means forgery.  John explained that it was Canadian issue which was why it had the different power socket.  That really doesn't explain anything since it had to have been a later addition during the life of the head.  Would love to hear from Birdie concerning the amp.  At the price they are asking it seems like a good deal considering what the vintage D103's are going for. 

[godofthunder]

 I believe that the parenthesis that indicate a forgery  are dropped down lower than the rest of the font.

[birdie]

 Thank you psycho. I will let this subject play itself out,as I might learn a bit more about the Hiwatt line. In any event, it's a damn good sounding amp, whatever it is. It's also if Iight say so myself, dang cheap for a Hiwatt, HiWhat?Hiwattish mashup.... time may tell just what the story is on 105's.

[birdie]

Ps I bought this years ago from a guy in yep, Canada, along with the 4x12.
He used to post a long time ago as 59burst, I seem to remember.

[Basvarken]

For what it's worth I don't see anyone claiming it is stock...
An amp that age may well have had some modifications/replacements done.

I own an old early seventies Ampeg V4B. I had the power transformer replaced as the original had a melt down. One the standby switch has been replaced once by a non original one (in the middle of a gig). I had to replace the power plug as the old one fell apart. Plus some resistors inside have been replaced.
Does that make my amp a fake?
I don't think so. For a full tube it's normal servicing (and sometimes resurrection even) over the years.

YMMV

[Psycho Bass Guy]

The big thing for any Hiwatt/Sound City, moreso than the super tidy layout and serviceability, is having Partridge transformers. They are notoriously durable without being overwound, partly because the lack of bell covers helps to disappate heat off the windings. They are a huge part of why a Hiwatt has such power and authority. There are a couple of companies who make cosmetically similar with the off yellow, distinctively shaped core masts, but electrically inferior transformers and even going so far as to label them as "Partridge."

They are described here about halfway down the page: http://www.chambonino.com/work/hiwatt/hw4.html

Seeing those bell covers in the photo was an even bigger red flag than the IEC jack.  Unless the replacement trannies can deliver the current that true Partridges do, it's not going to have the same punch. However, since Birdie has had that amp a long time, I'd say the replacements may be up to the task. The reason my gut said "fake" right away was that Music Ground, the notorious UK counterfeiter, used transformers that look exactly like the ones in BE photo in their buildups of old Hiwatt chassis. As I said in my intial comment last year about amp forgery:

Guitars are relatively easy to fake unless the perspective victim knows the details of the instrument he wants intimately. With amps, even the ones in the linked thread, if a buyer knows enough to seek out a specific model, even if it's a forgery, the amp has to be the functional equivalent and, in most cases, a similar model and vintage. In essence, the copies ARE as good as the real thing, just lacking the collector value. In that, aside from aesthetics, the people ARE getting what they pay for.