1987 pre-regular line Custom Shop TB IV

Freuds_Cat · February 22, 2011, 08:20:06 PM

I love the funcionality of the Supertone but I still struggle with its looks. I'm with Scott in regards Badass 1 bridges.
Not sold on the whole Dimarzio thing though.

Nice score Uwe.

Nocturnal · February 22, 2011, 09:31:45 PM

Quote from: bassvirtuoso on February 22, 2011, 08:05:55 PM

By the way, I love my supertone bridge.

Same here! I like it much better than the 3-point. It may not be the prettiest bridge, but then neither are Gibson's.

uwe · February 23, 2011, 03:30:53 AM

What I like about the three point is that it doesn't have this massive plate obstructing the surface of the bass' top, yet isn't flimsy either with those three large studs. I'm not aware of any other bridge like that. It doesn't look utalitarian yet is. In comparison, both the Badass and the Supertone have put purpose over visual design which is sensible and generally good designing - form follows function -, but having both once in a while is nice too.

But this bass' prototype status warrants that its original look be reinstated. I have the Supertone on my Blackbird and it looks nicely industrial ON THAT TYPE OF TBird, gives a little more sustain (but just like a Ric a TBird is inherently already a sustain-rich bass so there is nothing really gained that way) than the three point and lets you lower the action a little more evenly, but the effects are not startling. I have not felt compelled to repeat the exercise with any other bass. Then again if that bass should play like a dream with it, I might keep it on there.

uwe · February 23, 2011, 03:40:15 AM

Quote from: bassvirtuoso on February 22, 2011, 08:05:55 PM
That looks like the one floating around TB a few weeks ago. Wonder why it got turned around so fast?

By the way, I love my supertone bridge.

I don't think the guy knew what he was selling. He latched on to the Custom Shop decal, yes, but wasn't aware of the front jack, open gear tuners, larger headstock nor the fact that this bass preceded the 1987 reissue of the TB IV. If he had he would have done a bit more window dressing in his description and addressed collectors more. Which would have seen me have more competiton than I did! I stumbled on this purely by accident half an hour before the auction would have closed. The 1987 caught my eye, I thought "oh, this is an early one then" and as I enlarged the pic I saw the front jack and the headstock looked a bit oversized ... (I actually do feel that purely from a design perspective the smaller headstock of later TBirds looks better. The old size was overdoing things a little visually.)

Basvarken · February 23, 2011, 04:02:46 AM

Quote from: uwe on February 23, 2011, 03:30:53 AM
I have the Supertone on my Blackbird and it looks nicely industrial ON THAT TYPE OF TBird, gives a little more sustain (but just like a Ric a TBird is inherently already a sustain-rich bass so there is nothing really gained that way) than the three point re.

Really? I find it had to believe.
I'd say the three point bridge allows for a more pure way of transporting the frequencies onto the body.
The Hipshot (and Badass) have this big lump of metal to absorb the frequencies.

Calling the Hipshot bridge a SuperTone is kinda pretentious if you ask me $:-\$

Basshappi · February 23, 2011, 08:11:50 AM

Congrats Uwe!

Nocturnal · February 23, 2011, 08:13:03 AM

The Hipshot blends in nicely on my ebony Bird so the looks don't bother me. If it was a vintage Bird I would be inclined to go with the original 3-point for the overall look of the bass. It all comes down to what you like best, and I don't think either is the "wrong" choice.

Dave W · February 23, 2011, 08:24:02 AM

Quote from: Basvarken on February 23, 2011, 04:02:46 AM
Really? I find it had to believe.
I'd say the three point bridge allows for a more pure way of transporting the frequencies onto the body.
The Hipshot (and Badass) have this big lump of metal to absorb the frequencies.

More string energy going into the body = less sustain

More string energy retained in the strings = more sustain

That lump of metal acts as an inertia block to help prevent those frequencies from going into the body. How well it works depends on how well the bridge is designed.

I never understood this until I read an explanation by Mica Wickersham of Alembic. It's why Alembics have a big brass "tone plate" under their bridge, it keeps more energy in the strings, increases sustain and minimizes the effect of the body woods on tone.

QuoteCalling the Hipshot bridge a SuperTone is kinda pretentious if you ask me $:-\$

Agreed

nofi · February 23, 2011, 08:42:30 AM

which raises a question i always have. why would someone want more sustain in a bass. i have never undestood why.

Dave W · February 23, 2011, 08:47:12 AM

Any solid body bass has plenty enough sustain for me.

Basvarken · February 23, 2011, 09:37:35 AM

That explanation makes sense Dave.
But does that also mean the more sustain the less tone?

uwe · February 23, 2011, 09:57:40 AM

The more sustain the less snap and attack perhaps. And wood tone. I hear less alder or ash (or whatever non-descript plant remnants these folks from California use ...

) in a P or J with a heavy duty bridge (think Geddy Lee Signature) than on those with the flimsy original bridge. And those are snappier, livelier too, the only drawback is that high notes die pretty quickly and don't really sing. They are more percussive though.

Why would you want more sustain on a bass? You certainly don't need it for the deep tones, but when playing upper register notes that you want to let "stand" rather than quick percussive runs, then the sustain of a TBird or Ric is just sweeter (and beefier) than of a bolt-on bass no matter what the bridge.

dadagoboi · February 23, 2011, 11:08:36 AM

Congrats on the bass Uwe! I think it deserves to have its original bridge.

A properly cut nut and string saddles also have a great deal to do with sustain.

Barklessdog · February 23, 2011, 11:46:57 AM

QuoteI never understood this until I read an explanation by Mica Wickersham of Alembic. It's why Alembics have a big brass "tone plate" under their bridge, it keeps more energy in the strings, increases sustain and minimizes the effect of the body woods on tone.

My Lp bass has a plate under the bridge, but I thought it to be a flat surface to withstand the height adjustment tension?

Freuds_Cat · February 23, 2011, 12:35:06 PM

My Jazz must be the exception to the rule. The countersunk Badass1 gives me huge sustain which makes the upper mids and higher notes sing a little more and the lower notes hold their warmth longer during parts of a song where I'm required to hang on one note waiting for the next section to start. I've ;earned over the years to use the side of my hand as a dampner when its needed and also my fingers. These days its just part of my technique that I dont even think about when I'm playing.

At the same time I have constantly had musicians remark on the tone of this bass. Even a few from this forum.

The Supertone that went on the Pearl Export here actually improved the tone and only added a little sustain. The ST was quite light compared to a Badass 1. Also the bridge on the PE was very obviously made of cheap alloy because it had bent due to string tension so an improvement in sound was almost inevitable.