Hey PBG (and others), does this seem right to you?

[Andrew]

This is a short vid from Tech 21 to basically make the argument their new 1969 300 watt amp is as loud as a vintage SVT.

My problem with this is the 1969 uses the same power amp that's in the Landmark 300, and I've compared it to my SVT and the SVT spanks it hard.

Am I missing something? 

[Chris P.]

I guess this amp is a nice one for people who want the Ampeg sound, but who don't want the weight and issues of a real SVT... It's always hard to hear those things well on youtube.


For gigging I use two amps. Or my own Hiwatt DR201 with a Hiwatt 4x10 or a Hellborg preamp and poweramp combined with one (normal gigs) or two (outdoor and big gigs) Hellborg 2x12 cabs. This last one isn't mine, but I can use it. Some sort of endorsement. The Hellborg is the best amp I ever tried. The tonecontrol is just amazing and because of the big output transformers in the poweramp (it's totally solid state) it has the speaker damping characteristics of a tube amp. So it sounds quite tube-ey.
Fact: It replicates the sound/character of a certain bass very well.
Fact2: It doesn't has it's own character like an Ampeg or Hiwatt.

Since a couple of weeks I try the Tech21ny VT Bass. I dail in the SVT 'preset', tweak it a little and the Hellborg really sounds like an SVT. That pedal is good.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

My problem with this is the 1969 uses the same power amp that's in the Landmark 300, and I've compared it to my SVT and the SVT spanks it hard.

Am I missing something?

That "test" is so bullshit, it's not funny. First, the "100 mv input signal" is never explained. From the video, it appears to be a 400 Hz tone. So, OK they're using a 100mv 400 Hz tone to drive both amps on the scope, then how about they show what their respective output looks like and what AC voltage it measures? Until I see a 34 volt reading for the SVT and a 37 volt reading for their amp, both at clipping, I don't believe those power figures. Second, instead of using that test tone to drive the amps, there's suddenly a bass player. There's no way in hell that bass is putting out anything that drives the amps the same as the test tone. That's bait and switch, pure and simple. Thirdly, just for the sake of argument, lets say that the test is actually an equal test of volume (which it isn't); even that is invalid as both amps are on different cabinets loaded with who-knows-what as drivers by a microphone cleverly positioned slightly off-axis of the SVT's cabinets.

Most of the tonal information driving that meter is upper midrange. It is clearly set to "A" tonal weighting which does not take the human ear's volume curve into account and is mostly a measure of midrange volume. The other position on the meter,"C" weighting, is a more accurate reflection of the human ear. Even after all that, the Tech 21 amp clearly is more muted in the upper midrange, yet it somehow manages to drive the meter harder. That's because its cabinets are aimed at a spike in the polar pattern of the microphone not because of any 60 watts of fake "headroom."  

Tech 21 pedals are nice. I really like them myself, but if they put out this video as means of validating a marketing claim, I have lost quite a bit of respect for them. Don't believe the hype.

[Andrew]

Thanks. Two other things I thought were odd was they used the second channel in the SVT instead of the first, and they got 245 "clean" watts from the amp, claiming it had new tubes and was just biased, etc., doesn't that seem low for an SVT?

[lowend1]

The SVT should have been compared using an actual "squareback" SVT bottom. That is the cab that it was designed to go with.
Notice they don't show the settings compared on the two amps with a bassist playing.
Why the preoccupation with "clean watts"? Half the appeal of an old Ampeg is what happens when it starts to distort.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Thanks. Two other things I thought were odd was they used the second channel in the SVT instead of the first, and they got 245 "clean" watts from the amp, claiming it had new tubes and was just biased, etc., doesn't that seem low for an SVT?

The second channel on an SVT lacks the active midrange control and is usually a bit more brash. They claimed 285 "clean" watts, which is probably correct for modern output tubes biased conservatively. However, given that they have access to test gear and the only measurements we get to actually see are a cheap SPL meter and a sine tone level, its obvious to anyone who has ever worked on amps that this video is imply a PR stunt to impress the syncophants and wannabees that infest places like Talkbass.