Jethro Tull - Thunderbird content!

[PhilT]

Did anyone ever really think of them as Prog Rock?  I would lump a lot of people in that nightmare, but Tull/Ian Anderson was really too folky and peculiar to be that.  They did go through a period of odd time changes to fill out an LP side, but it always sounded like Fairport Convention smoked angel dust to me.  And I did see them with David Pegg on bass.

I don't think prog rock had been invented when Tull started. I remember them as "underground", which was anything that wasn't mainstream pop. Then "Living in the Past" got in the charts and there was a lot of grumbling about Tull selling out. But they never got mired in the English folk rock that Swarbrick dragged Fairport into. Earlier Fairport was somewhere between Jefferson Airplane and The Byrds.

Mick Abrahams is still going, but is not well, according to his web site.

http://www.mickaby.freeola.com/

[Dave W]

I always just thought of them as a rock band, nothing more specific than that.

[Pilgrim]

I always just thought of them as a rock band, nothing more specific than that.

Me, too - and a rather unconventional one at that.  Think "Thick as a Brick". 

[uwe]

Prog Rock in a roundabout way. I use the term for:

1. music you mostly can't dance to (or would want to),
2. using odd meters more than once in while,
3. a lead vocalist (with a not overly commercial voice) singing things other than "baby, baby, rock me till the juice runs down my legs",
4. hardly any or no single hits,
5. played with some instrumental skill,
6. they never do Johnny B. Goode as an encore,
7. long lyrics that either mean something or nothing, but the latter very elaborately
8. they do concept albums at least once in a while
9. they have more 10 minute than 2.30 minute songs
10. they never pitch the chorus at the end of their songs by a half- or full-note to make it sound more commercial.
11. real prog is British and its protagonists all went to English (or at least Scottish) public (= private) schools (US prog bands such as Kansas could never match the Brits for worldwide recognition, but remained largely a local phenomenon)

Tull ticks the boxes on all of those. Maybe they weren't bad prog, but they sure were prog (which to me is not an insult, I make jokes about it, but I also listen to it quite a bit).

In my German high school, once you reached 10th or 11th grade liking prog over "lesser forms of music" (such as Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Status Quo, Kiss, Sweet, Slade, Uriah Heep) was mandatory (unless you were a musical outcast like me) and that meant liking the five prog greats: Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull and Emerson, Lake & Palmer   as well as those prog bands that did not quite make it as big or as consistently big such as Camel, Gentle Giant, Supertramp (though they were probably always equally an AOR pop band too), Mike Oldfield=Tubular Bells, Triumvirat, Manfred Mann's Earth Band etc. Wishbone Ash was one band you were actually allowed to like irrespective whether you otherwise favored Status Quo or Jethro Tull, but they were an exception. And if you were extremely cool, you would say all of the above are crap and only listen to Frank Zappa. Plus a little McLaughlin and Cobham to the side.

I'd say that together with Genesis (Peter Gabriel and first two Phil Collins lead voiced albums) and Pink Floyd ("Echoes", Dark Side and Wish you were here), Jethro Tull ruled the canon of prog bands popular in Germany in the seventies. Households without either Aqualung or Thick as a Brick as an LP were few and far between.  Tull filled huge halls in the seventies in Germany. I can't remember a school or youth disco where Locomotive Breath (one of the few danceable tunes of JT) wasn't played, that piano intro would always create sheer bliss on the dance floor back then.  And Ian Anderson was widely regarded as one of the most charismatic frontmen, his lyrics fervently studied by all those proud of their Englisch language capabilities. New albums coming out by JT up to Too old too rock'n'roll (which caused some bewilderment among the devoted for sounding overtly poppy and commercial) were regarded as the gospel, hell, people even said they liked Passion Play  (which tended to be the third-most popular JT album after the other two mentioned above).

[vates]

I'd jump at the chance to be in a Tull tribute band

my thoughts exactly

[uwe]

You certainly wouldn't be bored as a bass player. All JT bass players always enjoyed considerable freedom. In Germany, a JT tribute would not have to worry about club gigs, I'm sure.

[vates]

Hehe. We are thinking about possible tour through NW Poland and Northern Germany May-June 2011. Perhaps, we ought to consider including some JT covers into our set-list

[Stjofön Big]

I guess the only J T tune I've played in a band, was New day yesterday. That bass line, in my ears, only sounds strained.
Concerning your classification, Uwe, of the prog rock family, I agree. Though I don't listen to that stuff any more. It's more than 35 years since I got really tired of it and sold the records. Tubular bells, that's one I kinda liked, but haven't played it since... well, I guess you alreday know...
How and where would anyone here place Kevin Ayers in the team park? He's a bass player to, you know.

[gweimer]

Prog Rock in a roundabout way. I use the term for:

1. music you mostly can't dance to (or would want to),
2. using odd meters more than once in while,
3. a lead vocalist (with a not overly commercial voice) singing things other than "baby, baby, rock me till the juice runs down my legs",
4. hardly any or no single hits,
5. played with some instrumental skill,
6. they never do Johnny B. Goode as an encore,
7. long lyrics that either mean something or nothing, but the latter very elaborately
8. they do concept albums at least once in a while
9. they have more 10 minute than 2.30 minute songs
10. they never pitch the chorus at the end of their songs by a half- or full-note to make it sound more commercial.
11. real prog is British and its protagonists all went to English (or at least Scottish) public (= private) schools (US prog bands such as Kansas could never match the Brits for worldwide recognition, but remained largely a local phenomenon)

Tull ticks the boxes on all of those. Maybe they weren't bad prog, but they sure were prog (which to me is not an insult, I make jokes about it, but I also listen to it quite a bit).

In my German high school, once you reached 10th or 11th grade liking prog over "lesser forms of music" (such as Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Status Quo, Kiss, Sweet, Slade, Uriah Heep) was mandatory (unless you were a musical outcast like me) and that meant liking the five prog greats: Pink Floyd, Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull and Emerson, Lake & Palmer   as well as those prog bands that did not quite make it as big or as consistently big such as Camel, Gentle Giant, Supertramp (though they were probably always equally an AOR pop band too), Mike Oldfield=Tubular Bells, Triumvirat, Manfred Mann's Earth Band etc. Wishbone Ash was one band you were actually allowed to like irrespective whether you otherwise favored Status Quo or Jethro Tull, but they were an exception. And if you were extremely cool, you would say all of the above are crap and only listen to Frank Zappa. Plus a little McLaughlin and Cobham to the side.

I'd say that together with Genesis (Peter Gabriel and first two Phil Collins lead voiced albums) and Pink Floyd ("Echoes", Dark Side and Wish you were here), Jethro Tull ruled the canon of prog bands popular in Germany in the seventies. Households without either Aqualung or Thick as a Brick as an LP were few and far between.  Tull filled huge halls in the seventies in Germany. I can't remember a school or youth disco where Locomotive Breath (one of the few danceable tunes of JT) wasn't played, that piano intro would always create sheer bliss on the dance floor back then.  And Ian Anderson was widely regarded as one of the most charismatic frontmen, his lyrics fervently studied by all those proud of their Englisch language capabilities. New albums coming out by JT up to Too old too rock'n'roll (which caused some bewilderment among the devoted for sounding overtly poppy and commercial) were regarded as the gospel, hell, people even said they liked Passion Play  (which tended to be the third-most popular JT album after the other two mentioned above).

LOL!  Truer words were never spoken!  However, you forgot 2 key points:

12.  Girls never really liked TRUE prog (Yes skates by that one for some reason.  I think it's the vocals)

There were SIX  prog greats.  The top of the list belongs to King Crimson.

[Denis]

LOL!  Truer words were never spoken!  However, you forgot 2 key points:
12.  Girls never really liked TRUE prog (Yes skates by that one for some reason.  I think it's the vocals)
There were SIX  prog greats.  The top of the list belongs to King Crimson.

Don't forget Can!
Back in the late 1990s Rhino came out with a 5 cd box set called "Supernatural Fairy Tales". It's out of print now but I managed to find one. It has lots of great prog rock stuff, but NO Tull! Hah!

[uwe]

King Crimson were the mother of all prog, but never scaled the commercial heights of the other five. Their influence is huge though and King Crimson's list of members is a who's who of prog (Greg Lake, John Wetton, Bill Bruford, Ian McDomald etc).

Can are just a bunch of nerdy krauts!   More ambience than prog, but no doubt influential.


Yes, and Gary stated that most obvious characteristic of prog, chicks don't like it. The exception from my experience though is not YES (let's face it, they only ever like the Trevor Rabin-led eighties version of YES), but Pink Floyd, Floyd being an odd prog band in so far as they always put feel and mood over technical prowess (and Gilmour's and Wright's blues roots gave the music much warmth). Floyd's music is neither very complicated nor do they show that very macho instrumentalism that ELP excelled at (probably the most all-out-male band ever, three guys playing together as if they were race car drivers competing with each other, except when Greg Lake sang Lucky Man or I believe in Father Christmas!). As such Waters', Gilmour's & Co.'s music probably transcends the prog box.

Uwe

PS: Ian Anderson is on record that he thinks "prog" is a horrible term and that he never saw himself in the same category as ELP, "but can understand in hindsight why we were lumped together with them". Not without adding mischieviously: "But even our early records had less timing mistakes."

[gweimer]

Don't forget Can!
Back in the late 1990s Rhino came out with a 5 cd box set called "Supernatural Fairy Tales". It's out of print now but I managed to find one. It has lots of great prog rock stuff, but NO Tull! Hah!

My son, believe it or not, has been trying to convince me of how great Can was.  I've got a live CD he gave me, but I simply cannot connect to it in any manner.  Truly awful, in my book.

[uwe]

I can take Can in small doses. They are probably too German for my taste and that "hypnotic soundtrack landscapes" thing was never really my taste. When the Scorpions arrived on the scene I loved them for their sheer brainlessness and uadulterated commitment to rock and entertain. They were a breath (Klaus Meine: "breass") of fresh air after all those angsty and cerebral "Tangerine-Neu-Embryo-Can-Amon-Eloys" we had had. Of course, and I can understand that today, that "cerebral angst"-coomponent was exactly what made krautrock so app(e)al(l)ing (read: different and original) to foreign markets.

[Denis]

My son, believe it or not, has been trying to convince me of how great Can was.  I've got a live CD he gave me, but I simply cannot connect to it in any manner.  Truly awful, in my book.

Is the cd one on which Damo Suzuki is singing? Of all the Can stuff I've heard, the songs on which he sings are my least favorites because his voice is ANNOYING!!!

I guess Uwe is close to home that they were more ambience than prog and agree more than I would have thought wtith Anderson's comment that "prog" is a horrible term. Pink Floyd may be considered prog but I never considered them prog at all because they were so different than any other band.

[PhilT]

There was a great drive at the end of the 60s to label everything, mostly by music journalists, as it saved them the trouble of sobering up and thinking about what they were writing. Yes, King Crimson and ELP were always prog. Once the mad people  left Genesis and Pink Floyd you could argue whether they still were. Tull never were, the element of self-mockery disqualifies them entirely. They just got stuck with the label and if the sozzled hack had landed on folk rock instead, which is closer to the truth, but still not right, there might never have been Thick as a Brick.

We used to play Locomotive Breath, but our then keyboard player, being a Jon Lord fan, insisted on turning the intro into his own personal classical overture, so by the time we got to the song the audience had lost the will to live.