I'm with Jim/eb2 on this (but not on US foreign policy and certainly not on the alleged merits of the bar bridge or two-point). Discussion sharpens senses. No, I don't believe that I'll convince anybody here, though like all leftists I'd like to change the world for the (perceived) better, but weighing other people's arguments and realizing that they are not moronic is something too. Besides, I sometimes do change my view on things, even political ones.
Re firemen and perverts, ouch!!!! Guilty on all counts. But since when was being perverse here an issue? ! - )
Dr Bassmann/Bill, I hear what you are saying, but my favorite uncle was always my most conservative one (and I his favorite nephew). We talked politics a lot, it never hurt our relationship. Politics - like religion, sex, basses and good wine - are a part of life, but not IMHO an overriding one (life and death uprisings against dictators excepted), reality corrupts/mellows out any politician of any ilk (at least in democracies), so very often we are talking about nuances of government. That is nothing to give up friendships about. Edith and I disagree violently on Tibet (she: let them go back to independence, I: yeah, sure, and analphabetism, a raging child mortality rate and a backwards class society under a theocracy), Putin (she: a dictator who can't be trusted, I: just what Russia needed at the time and as a former intelligence man reliable not to do anything foolish), nuclear plants (she: a non-calculable danger, turn'em off, I: not now and it's a calculable risk ...) and child molesting (she: death penalty!!!, I: ... wait a minute ...), but it never ever hurts the bond we have. I just call her "my Dalai Lama groupie" and she wordlessly admonishingly points me to any new statistic re cancer rates in nuclear plant vicinities!