Japanese RD anyone?

[Dave W]

This is not the same eBay counterfeit seller. There's a legitimate question here. We'll find out soon enough.

BTW, I've deleted a couple of threads in recent months by someone who rarely posts here, who seemed to be promoting counterfeits. If anyone wants to buy a counterfeit, that's their choice, but we're not going to have any part in publicizing them.

[OldManC]

Cheborneck!

[Freuds_Cat]

I agree with that policy Dave. It was not my intention in starting this thread in any way to promote counterfeits. More as a discussion point than anything due to the fact I think it unusual to see an RD coming from Asia.

[dadagoboi]

I wouldn't have any part of trading in counterfeit goods.  But if it doesn't say "Gibson" and isn't represented as such is it a counterfeit?  Eastwood and BaCH come to mind...what if one of them made an 'RD type of bass' with their name on a non trademark violating headstock?  Would it be a counterfeit?  Or just a knockoff?  A tribute?

Dan Lakin went to his first NAMM show with unauthorized Fender headstocks on his Precision copies.  He should have known better, he must be a crook!  Is it OK for Lull to make Tbird copies?  I guess it means that he can't come up with his own designs.

Starting a thread to create a discussion point is good as long as there's a discussion and not just a pile on.  The recent Ed Roman thread had positives and negatives.  Given the chance I like to play Devil's Advocate.

[Freuds_Cat]

I think that a counterfeit is a bass made (for eg) by a company other than Gibson or Fender etc but branding it as if it is made by these companies. BaCH, Lull et al do not do this. They brand it with their own name. Just my view on things.

[dadagoboi]

I think that a counterfeit is a bass made (for eg) by a company other than Gibson or Fender etc but branding it as if it is made by these companies. BaCH, Lull et al do not do this. They brand it with their own name. Just my view on things.

I agree completely if there are no intellectual property rights infringements.  The worst slime I know are not little guys like this particular vendor.  They are Target, Walmart, etc. who have made knocking off and stealing intellectual property their business model.

[uwe]

He said Walmart  , dude, insert nasty laugh here!

[dadagoboi]

Just as easily could have said Steinhof or any of the German mass market catalogues whose names escape me at the moment.  Just as slimey only with more 'tude...and I'm definitely well acquainted with 'tude!

[Dave W]

I agree with that policy Dave. It was not my intention in starting this thread in any way to promote counterfeits. More as a discussion point than anything due to the fact I think it unusual to see an RD coming from Asia.

Bret, I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't have posted this. I'm interested in the discussion too. This may turn out to be nothing more than a manufacturer's agent selling a few legit vintage pieces. Or not.

I wouldn't have any part of trading in counterfeit goods.  But if it doesn't say "Gibson" and isn't represented as such is it a counterfeit?  Eastwood and BaCH come to mind...what if one of them made an 'RD type of bass' with their name on a non trademark violating headstock?  Would it be a counterfeit?  Or just a knockoff?  A tribute?

Dan Lakin went to his first NAMM show with unauthorized Fender headstocks on his Precision copies.  He should have known better, he must be a crook!  Is it OK for Lull to make Tbird copies?  I guess it means that he can't come up with his own designs.

Starting a thread to create a discussion point is good as long as there's a discussion and not just a pile on.  The recent Ed Roman thread had positives and negatives.  Given the chance I like to play Devil's Advocate.

It's only a counterfeit if it's branded with the name of a company that didn't make it. Making a Fender-shaped headstock causes "confusion in the marketplace" according to trademark law, but as long as the instrument isn't branded as a Fender, then it's not a counterfeit. If it says Lakland or Lull on the headstock, the buyer knows it's not a Fender or Gibson.

IMHO most so-called intellectual property laws ought to be abolished and consigned to the scrap heap of history. But anti-counterfeiting laws ought to be strictly enforced.

[dadagoboi]

It's only a counterfeit if it's branded with the name of a company that didn't make it. Making a Fender-shaped headstock causes "confusion in the marketplace" according to trademark law, but as long as the instrument isn't branded as a Fender, then it's not a counterfeit. If it says Lakland or Lull on the headstock, the buyer knows it's not a Fender or Gibson.

IMHO most so-called intellectual property laws ought to be abolished and consigned to the scrap heap of history. But anti-counterfeiting laws ought to be strictly enforced.
[/quote]

What about trademarks?  How can you define counterfeiting as merely a name on a headstock?  I'm for returning the laws to their original form w/o all the extensions and changes the corpses have bought.  Gives the creator 20 years or so to gain from his creativity and done.

Guitars are a little different from run of the mill products, you can assume a higher degree of knowledge in the buyer of a high end instrument, for him the name means something.  Ipods are mainly about the look, hard to see the apple on it.  Should anyone be able to copy Apple's look as long as they put their own logo on it?

[the mojo hobo]

You can call them replicas, counterfeits, or whatever you want, but I'm 90% certain they don't exist at all.

First red flag: Payment Terms: Wire Transfer, Western Union, Money-gram. Might as well send cash in a brown paper bag, you'll never see any product and you have no recourse to get your money back.

Try a google search with alibaba and scam and see what you find.

[the mojo hobo]

I agree completely if there are no intellectual property rights infringements.  The worst slime I know are not little guys like this particular vendor.  They are Target, Walmart, etc. the Chinese who have made knocking off and stealing intellectual property their business model.

Fixed.

[dadagoboi]

You can call them replicas, counterfeits, or whatever you want, but I'm 90% certain they don't exist at all.

First red flag: Payment Terms: Wire Transfer, Western Union, Money-gram. Might as well send cash in a brown paper bag, you'll never see any product and you have no recourse to get your money back.

Try a google search with alibaba and scam and see what you find.

All overseas business is done with wire transfer on presentation of documents and bill of lading...it's SOP worldwide.  Walmart doesn't use credit cards.

I guess I'm looking at the quantity per week and extrapolating to what was being sold based on a minimum quantity of 10 and my understanding of product description in Asia, just add "copy" after the description. I have 4 QC guys in China, when they say the product is inspected, loaded into the container and sealed THEN payment is sent.  Sending a guy to Singapore is no problem.

If I did have a few hundred good quality RD copies could I sell them?  I'd bet yes.

I AM NOT SAYING THIS IS LEGIT but it sure is good entertainment  

P.S.  Thanks for correcting my post.  Velly Crever.

You think the Chinese model is any different than the Japanese before it?  Or any other nation coming into its own?  Read some history.  Empires come and go.  Watch who builds the US bullet train if it ever happens...with THEIR proprietary technology.

[the mojo hobo]

All overseas business is done with wire transfer on presentation of documents and bill of lading...it's SOP worldwide.

That is true, many of us here have done just that with B&CH, but one has to deal with a trusted (or verified) partner, as once the funds are transferred there is no getting it back. And I just don't trust that site.

Yea, I think the Japanese were more honorable, had more integrity. The Chinese have been known to take a design they were contracted to manufacture for a US company and produce counterfeit copies in the same factory as the real ones. When customers bought them and registered them the company found serial numbers that weren't legit. I'm guessing it's a huge problem and a large part of why you can buy certain brand new things on ebay for less than through other more legitimate channels. (Not saying ebay is not legit, but ebay sellers may or may not be)

[Dave W]

You can call them replicas, counterfeits, or whatever you want, but I'm 90% certain they don't exist at all.

Try a google search with alibaba and scam and see what you find.

Try a google search for ebay scam and craigslist scam and see what you find. 

Yes there are scammers on alibaba. That doesn't necessarily mean this seller is a scammer.

What about trademarks?  How can you define counterfeiting as merely a name on a headstock?  I'm for returning the laws to their original form w/o all the extensions and changes the corpses have bought.  Gives the creator 20 years or so to gain from his creativity and done.

Trademark infringement isn't counterfeiting.

Unfortunately trademarks don't have a time limit. Only patents and copyrights. The whole system is badly broken and all of them are routinely abused. Google "patent trolls" for a small taste of what goes on.

Guitars are a little different from run of the mill products, you can assume a higher degree of knowledge in the buyer of a high end instrument, for him the name means something.  Ipods are mainly about the look, hard to see the apple on it.  Should anyone be able to copy Apple's look as long as they put their own logo on it?

IMHO yes they should be able to. This is a complex subject though and I realize that many will disagree.