'60s T-Bird pickup vital statistics

[Pekka]

Hello everyone! I've been trying to find information about the original Thunderbird pickups. The usual stuff: ohms, wire gauge, magnets etc.

I have two NOS '70s covers and my friend is a pickup maker, you'll might guess the rest!:) Our aim is not to make an exact copy but to get into the ballpark.

Thanks in advance!

PS. The pickups are going to the inverness green NR seen on this thread:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=657989&highlight=non+reverse

[Dave W]

Welcome aboard, I'm going to move this to the Gibson board where it's more likely to be seen by someone who has the specs.

[Pekka]

Welcome aboard, I'm going to move this to the Gibson board where it's more likely to be seen by someone who has the specs.

Thanks a plenty Dave!

[Dave W]

I know we've discussed them here before, finding the specific threads is the problem.

IIRC they are blade-type pickups but the blades are magnets, rather than steel blades with magnets below the coils.

[Highlander]

I did a general google with "Thunderbird pickup specifications" which turned up a variety of things - one link (talkbass) referenced Bill Lawrence, alnico bars, twin coils on bobbins and a reference to being based on a Melody Maker pup...? sounds quite like a scaled down Mudbucker...?

[TBird1958]

 Save yourself a lot of time effort and money.

Mike Lull's is a reverse enigineered '60s Gibson pickup, the bobbin shape, wire etc. are all the same materials Gibson used. The cover is the correct 2 screw configuation and is stamped by the same California based manufacturer that Gibson used. Are they expensive? Yes! $289.00 apiece and chrome bezels are $30.00 ea. Since the pickup is the primary component in the voice of your bass my rationale is that they are totally worth the price. I have them installed in 4 of my basses, they are fantastic.

Soundclip?
And a Youtube of my band playing Sabbath's"Paranoid"......Sorry I'm way out in front of the mix! The bass is a single pickup Lull Thunderbird thru an all tube Traynor.



In a finished BaCH TH-1


and a Gibson



Install on a BaCH

[Highlander]

There speaks the voice (ok, texts) of experience, and probably a few more experiences than most of us...

[Dave W]

@ Mark: not having owned a 60s Bird, I'll take your word on the Lulls. But they're extraordinarily expensive in the US, and I imagine that they would be even more expensive in Finland, where Pekka is. He's got someone willing to make something similar to the originals, and (I assume) at a price he can afford. I encourage that.

@ Ken: they're not like mudbuckers. Bill Lawrence is the one who told me that they were constructed like the original Melody Maker pickups. i.e. with the coil wound around a blade magnet rather than steel polepieces. Except that the Melody Maker was a single coil, while these were humbuckers.

Somebody here has the approximate DC resistance specs. I recall the wire being AWG #42 like most Gibsons, but I'm not sure.

[TBird1958]

 Indeed you're correct Dave.......They are indeed expensive.. But the bass he has to put them is beautiful and were he selling it would be worth a lot of money. Why use anything but the best. Or reconstruct something that already exsists?

[Pekka]

Well, I've drooled over the Lull pickups the first day I saw them available. They would be the easiest option. But, as Dave said, the money is the issue. Also...

-my friend is an experienced pickupmaker who has done some great pickups for my 12-string basses, he is willing and interested to experiment and I want to suppot him (plus he is my neighbour which helps...)
-the 70's covers (plus the ring for the bridge PU) might look a bit different than the 60's ones but they look good enough for me, the 2nd best option
-I won't be selling that bass;)

[Stjofön Big]

Pekka! You mention 12-string bass, not only one, but basses! Pictures, please! And info!

[TBird1958]

 I can understand the $$$ aspect and don't dispute it, however you'll find it very difficult to get info about the pickups - they are soldered together. Dissassembly isn't highly recommended. So by the time it's all said and done.......    

[Pekka]

 I can understand the $$$ aspect and don't dispute it, however you'll find it very difficult to get info about the pickups - they are soldered together. Dissassembly isn't highly recommended. So by the time it's all said and done.......    

I know but even the basic info helps. The get into the ballpark is the goal this time. The bass sounds great with the Schaller humbucker it has now, and to be honest, if it had the same look as the original I'd leave it there and add another to the bridge. It's only a replica (albeit a fine one), not a real Gibson.

Thanks already to everyone for the help!

[Barklessdog]

Long time no see Pekka, fellow Proggie fan!

Here is the info I collected years ago from the Pit- Hope it helps- Compares 60's pups to 70's

'76 t-bird pickup
------------------------------------------------------------------------
impedance: 6.5 kilohms total
wiring: 2 coils in series (humbucking)

sound compared to other t-birds:
sorry, I have none to compare with :-(

construction:
like a stacked humbucker turned on its side,
with a "rail" or "blade" polepiece running through
both coils. There is a little gap between the coils
where the single bar magnet sits on top of the rail.

They are constructed the exact same way Bill Lawrence described the original T-Bird pups: a conventional upright humbucker with bar magnets and plastic bobbins. They are housed in a chrome metal cover with two holes for mounting screws - one on each side.
dc resistance is 9,56 kOhm and they measure 3,58 x 1,49 inches. They came with chrome mounting rings.
I bought them several years ago from a local dealer who had ordered them together with some lipstick pups. Unfortunately I've been unable to compare them to a "real" T-Bird, since I don't own one. But I had them installed in two other basses ( I dare not say, which) and what I can report is I found them quite "agressive in the high midrange", if you know what I mean... 3,58" and 1,49".

"Below is excerpts from info sent directly to me from Seymour DUNCAN. Not an associate but Seymour himself. I'm shortening it and putting it in the format from the Pit request"

"60s pups have nothing in common with the 70s pups. Cosmetically 60s pups have 2 screws vs. 3 screws from 70s. The wiring on a 60s pup is std Gibson gold braid and the pups are wired up similar to a jbass. The output is typically in the 7.8 - 8.7 k-ohm area. 70s pups are wiring is WEIRD! the tail pup have the braid, the neck pup has a 3 wire arrangement. If the pups are not wired exactly correct (its a 1 shot wiring scheme that follows no rhyme or reason) you will have no output. The tail of a 70s pup is about 14k, the neck is about 6.5 and they balance out. If you take you reading at the jack it will appear about 8.4 each pup. AT the coil its way different. This has been giving repair guys fits for years. As a matter of fact, my pups had to go back to Seymour after rewind because they were both wound in the 8k range. A 70s pup is deeper then a 60s pup. NEVER EVER EVER pull the cans on tbird pup. 60s they keep the assembly together, 70s there wires soldiered to the inside of the cover and sometimes epoxied. THEN there are variants to each that differ slightly. I've seen 3 different thicknesses to the 70s pups. 60s pups on a 70s bass will need to have a block of wood under the pup and it should go so high that you will see under the pup. 60s cavities may need to be deepened to hold a 70s pup. I own and use both & other then cosmetics, you cant put a 70s bass and a 60s bass in the same category. The ultimate recording bass is a 60s Bird. This is a direct quote from Tom Peterson who is a good friend of mine. Eric Klaastadt Luthier extraordinaire and repair guy for the Ox aka Uncle Twiddley said the NON-reverse 4 was J.E.'s favorite recording bass. The modern basses share NOTHING with the old ones other then body shape. Hope it helps

"Just to clarify, ALL 60s pups were the same. They all had 2 screw mounts. On a Tbird IV, the pots were wired just like a Jazz and the outer braid(black wire on Fender) is the ground and is wired to the pot. The inner braid is the hot and goes to the middle lug. The 70s 3 screw mounts are totally different. TRUST ME, PLEASE TRUST ME if you want to totally F**K up your 60s or 70s tbird pup to the point of NON-REPAIR, take the cover off. Quote form Seymour... A little trick for you guys... An early model 70s Dimarzio bass bucker can be filed down and will fit under a Bird cover. The slightly later ones cant. BTW, I just built an EB2 that other then the f-holes looking straight down, (I balsa'd around the f's) the bass is filled with foam Peas because I installed 2 Chandler Tbird pups...

[Pekka]

Thanks a plenty and hi Barkless Dog!