what is it with that E string on EB3 and SG basses?

[barend]

you are right, but it was the only shorty that I have played on that had a good E string sound .

@Uwe: there is not so much you can adjust about the volume on the E string seperately. You can raise the pickup or the poles. I did that, it helped a little but not enough.

[godofthunder]

If there really is a structural difference in "punch" and "presence" with shortscale basses in general that must only apply for the open E string and maybe the fretted F on the E-string.
From the fretted F# on the E-string the length is exactly the same as a short scale. It would only be the string pitch that makes it different.

Try putting a capo on the second position of a long scale bass and tune it to EADG. You'll notice the strings are kinda loose now.
This is how a short scale sounds and feels.

And this is one of the main reasons why I prefer extra heavy gauge strings(50-115)on my shorties. It helps to get the tone back. And to get a proper string tension.
I really have no issues with the E-string on my shorties.

This is what I so poorly treid expresses earlier. I have found a good heavy gauge  higher tension string like Roto Sound really help with a flappy E string on short scale basses so to that end I have never had a problem. It takes work to get a good sound out of a 60's Gibson EB3, most equate Jack Bruces tone with this bass and to be honest I think his tone is god awefull.  Now Jimmy Lea on a EB3 is another matter he could make that sucker sing !

[godofthunder]

More Slade

[Dave W]

There are plenty of short scales that don't have a volume drop. One other thing to remember is the way we hear frequencies (google Fletcher-Munson Curve for an explanation). A mudbucker is deficient in high end, which we hear better, and especially on the E string.

Uwe makes a good point in comparing a short scale E with a long scale B. It will never sound quite the same as the other strings. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the way it is. It can be helped with the right strings (especially heavier strings like Rob uses) and pickup, but as Scotty says, ye canno' change the laws of physics.

[Chris P.]

I used to play my '76 a lot. And I always had this problem: While playing the first six positions on the E-string on my own, I heared them loud enough. When I played the same positions with the band playing, I often didn't hear them. (I did feel them, though). The first times I thought my bass or amp broke down, I looked to my bandmates and public, but nobody seemed to notice any lack of bass. Cos it was there... It was just me, not hearing those tones.

Is that about the curve I'm going to google?

[barend]

There are plenty of short scales that don't have a volume drop. One other thing to remember is the way we hear frequencies (google Fletcher-Munson Curve for an explanation). A mudbucker is deficient in high end, which we hear better, and especially on the E string.

But it was not only on the mudbucker, or the TB plus. I also had it with the bridge pickup. Still think it has to do with the EB3 model or electronics. The E strings were not floppy by the way, the tension was good. Maybe you can compensate the volume drop by putting only a thicker E string on it and leave the others with the lighter gauge, but then the playability will suffer.
I think the trick from Basvarken with the nail will also help a lot for the mudbucker/TB plus.

@godofthunder: Thanks for the Slade clips. Never really listened to that before. He plays that bass like a guitar with a lot of overdrive, so it is hard to hear the typical EB3 sound. But I like it.

[uwe]

Volume can be compensated by raising the E pole screw and dropping all others (mostly the A which tends to be loudest), the differences can be quite stark.

Still, Chris' observation is right, a shortscale E doesn't cut through as audibly as a long scale E and that has to do with the lesser tension. However, I have also noticed that bandmates don't really notice or mind the difference in audibilty. Play a long scale E at the 12th fret and a short scale one, the difference in focus and feel is striking.

But let's not get carried away. Ozzy's first solo album was solely recorded with an EB-3 by the great Bob Daisley and the bass sounds killer on that album even though for nu metal stamdards there are sublows missing. And I'm sure that onone from us ever missed clarity and general "thereness" of the E string played bass riff of Chris' countrymen wonderful Radar Love. That sound - which I always identified with a Ric - stems from a short scale EB-3 (or -0), most likely a seventies one with middle mudbucker and maple neck though judging from the audible presence and lack of overdrive. 

[Basvarken]

Ozzy's first solo album was solely recorded with an EB-3 by the great Bob Daisley and the bass sounds killer on that album

Guess that's a matter of taste. I've always found the bass sound on that album hilariously bad: Plop plop plop.
Really it cracked me up everytime I heard it when I was a teenager. Still does.

And I really don't care for nu metal as you know...

[barend]

Volume can be compensated by raising the E pole screw and dropping all others (mostly the A which tends to be loudest), the differences can be quite stark.

did that, see how high the pole is on this picture of my former SG bass. Still it was not enough to compensate the imbalance. It didn't make a huge difference:

[patman]

I raise the action on the E string side higher than I would on a long scale bass...makes it sound tighter and more assertive.

[Aussie Mark]

This is interesting.  One of the things I really like about the SG RIs is that the E string sounds a lot better than just about any other short scale bass I've owned.  With the Pyramid Flats that Uwe kindly provided, I don't notice anything deficient about my SG Faded's E.

I've got TI Flats on my Rivoli, and the E on that seems to be pretty good too, compared to other shorties I've owned.  The Riv has a Dimarzio Model 1 pup, so maybe that makes a difference as well?

[Dave W]

But it was not only on the mudbucker, or the TB plus. I also had it with the bridge pickup. Still think it has to do with the EB3 model or electronics. ...

The bridge pickup is much closer to the bridge than with most basses. Too close to develop a lot of low end on its own, and this is much more noticeable on the E.

It can't be the electronics, they're different on the EB-3 and SG Reissues. Some EB-0 owners complain of the problem as well (although my EB-0F never had the problem), and that has a different circuit. It can't be the mudbucker alone if you have the problem on the SG Reissue, since the TB Plus is a much different design with two blades -- those screws aren't polepieces.

I don't have an answer for you other than to try different strings.

[uwe]

Good as those Slade clips are, Scott, and adorable as Jim Lea is as a bassist, even his low range E string playing is largely inaudible. He plays a lot of his signature runs and chording in the middle register and mostly on A, D and G, comparatively rarely hitting a npte below the low A much less play the E string empty.

Probably the reason why his signature boutique SG bass was a long scale.

[Dave W]

I remember a YouTube compilation of Allen Woody playing, we noticed that he was really riding the E in the segment where he was playing his T-Bird but mostly avoided the E on the clips where he was playing his EB-3.

[Highlander]

I presume that this is not apparent when the Mudbucker's fitted to a long-scale, as I never noticed any problem whilst using my Thunderbird with one... albeit not by the neck...