Why Pontiac, and not GMC???

[Pilgrim]

I like the new Camaros a lot better than the new Chargers, Challengers and Mustangs. I think people should be able to drive any type of car they want to drive. I drove the speed limit to Brooklyn NY from my home in MA which is a distance of about 200 miles and got 27.9 MPG exactly. Motorhead cars have come a LONG way.

Amen!  if you're willing to pay for it and pay for the gas / diesel / batteries, you should be able to drive it with no apologies to anyone!

The old GTO's are classics and are beautiful but they were terrible on gas and not so hot on handling and the new GTO's (and G8 GT's) will leave them in the dust (including the tri power 389's) in acceleration, handling, comfort and MPG.

Agreed again.  The power per cubic inch ratio has increased incredibly, and fuel efficiency has increased with it.  Better deal all the way around, for everyone!

I actually like the new GTOs because they are such sleepers, the only thing that gives them away is the beautiful sound from the dual exhaust and watching their taillights rapidly vanish. GM does not know how to advertise and doesn't know a good thing when they have it except for the Corvette.

I understand when someone likes a "sleeper" - but I can't buy the GTO's styling.  Quite literally, I have mistaken it for Cavaliers in parking lots, and that's offensive to me, given the legacy of the model. 

IMO styling is the biggest mistake GM has made; they've built pretty durable vehicles, but they're nothing special in the styling department.  I was a GM guy for years, but they haven't built a single car (other than the 'Vette) in the past 20 years that was visually attractive.  Ford and Chrysler have done MUCH better in the styling department, while GM has been a vast wasteland of boring and repulsive shapes, especially on the Chevrolet side.  Styling at Pontiac until recently was defined as "glue a bunch of plastic crap on the side".  A sterling example of the ugliness is the "Moby Dick" Impala, which was followed by the model I call the "X-Wing" Impala because the huge round taillights looked like the ass end of an X-wing fighter in Star Wars.  The current Impala looks OK in photos, but I've driven one as a rental and it's butt-ugly in the flesh.

I drive a '99 Chevy Blazer which we've put 140K miles on, and the kindest thing I can say about is that ti's a nice, dependable toaster on wheels.  just an appliance with boring but non-offensive styling that allows you to turn the key and drive it.  In the 7 years we've owned it, I've never once been enthused about driving it.

When I want to be enthused, I'll hop in my wife's BMW 325i or my 280ZX Turbo. 

[Barklessdog]

I really like the new CTS. I saw a new Camaro at a dealer. Looked nice not not jerk your head around nice.

[Pilgrim]

Mea culpa!  I forgot the Caddies!  I love the CTS and much of what Cadillac has done over the past couple of years!!

[bobyoung]

Amen!  if you're willing to pay for it and pay for the gas / diesel / batteries, you should be able to drive it with no apologies to anyone!

Agreed again.  The power per cubic inch ratio has increased incredibly, and fuel efficiency has increased with it.  Better deal all the way around, for everyone!

I understand when someone likes a "sleeper" - but I can't buy the GTO's styling.  Quite literally, I have mistaken it for Cavaliers in parking lots, and that's offensive to me, given the legacy of the model. 

I guess you have a point but I still like them, they're keeping their value pretty well though

IMO styling is the biggest mistake GM has made; they've built pretty durable vehicles, but they're nothing special in the styling department.  I was a GM guy for years, but they haven't built a single car (other than the 'Vette) in the past 20 years that was visually attractive.  Ford and Chrysler have done MUCH better in the styling department,

agreed especially the 300C which I think is a beautiful car

while GM has been a vast wasteland of boring and repulsive shapes, especially on the Chevrolet side.  Styling at Pontiac until recently was defined as "glue a bunch of plastic crap on the side".

`Ha ha! Exactly, GM neglected this brand for 20 years and before that they neglected Oldsmobile and they are both dead now, and both were great looking cars back in the 60's and before, sad.

A sterling example of the ugliness is the "Moby Dick" Impala,

I hate to say it but I have two 95 Buick Roadmasters in that styling, one's a wagon I like them though, they also have detuned LT-1 Corvette motors in it, fast for a boat

which was followed by the model I call the "X-Wing" Impala because the huge round taillights looked like the ass end of an X-wing fighter in Star Wars.  The current Impala looks OK in photos, but I've driven one as a rental and it's butt-ugly in the flesh.

I won't buy another Impala until and if they ever make another rear wheel drive V8 version and I've owned many in my time starting from my first car which was a 61 2 door bubble top Impala.

I drive a '99 Chevy Blazer which we've put 140K miles on, and the kindest thing I can say about is that ti's a nice, dependable toaster on wheels.  just an appliance with boring but non-offensive styling that allows you to turn the key and drive it.  In the 7 years we've owned it, I've never once been enthused about driving it.

When I want to be enthused, I'll hop in my wife's BMW 325i or my 280ZX Turbo. 

[Dave W]

Mea culpa!  I forgot the Caddies!  I love the CTS and much of what Cadillac has done over the past couple of years!!

Now I know almost nothing about the CTS. The average Caddy buyer must be about 97 years old and I'm not there yet.    But I have seen the obnoxious ads. if you want to know what's wrong with GM's marketing, well, here's a prime example.





"When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?" 
Yeah right, that's what sells me on a car, along with "sapele wood accents," 40 gig hard drives and pop up map screens. That's what really matters. 

[lowend1]

IMO styling is the biggest mistake GM has made; they've built pretty durable vehicles, but they're nothing special in the styling department.  I was a GM guy for years, but they haven't built a single car (other than the 'Vette) in the past 20 years that was visually attractive.  Ford and Chrysler have done MUCH better in the styling department, while GM has been a vast wasteland of boring and repulsive shapes, especially on the Chevrolet side.

Never mind that they had to hire Ralph Gilles (designer of the PT Cruiser) from Chrysler to create the HHR. And notice how the 'Vette slowly started to look more like a Viper coupe. The new Camaro???...

[lowend1]

Now I know almost nothing about the CTS. The average Caddy buyer must be about 97 years old and I'm not there yet.

No Dave, that's the Buick buyer. The Caddy buyer is a self important clown with way too much disposable income. If the Caddy happens to be an Escalade, the buyer also probably has a small johnson.

[Dave W]

No Dave, that's the Buick buyer. The Caddy buyer is a self important clown with way too much disposable income. If the Caddy happens to be an Escalade, the buyer also probably has a small johnson.

I thought all Escalades were driven by tiny blond women. 

[Pilgrim]

I thought all Escalades were driven by tiny blond women. 

And professional athletes...possibly the husbands of tiny blonde women.

[lowend1]

And professional athletes...possibly the husbands of tiny blonde women.

Or guys that THINK they're professional athletes because they play in a Wednesday night beer fart softball league.

[bobyoung]

Cadillac had a supercharged version of the CTS that was phenomenally fast, probably close to the Z06 Vettes. of course wimpy GM has now nixed it. That picture of the Camaro is from a very unflattering angle, they're actually pretty nice looking. I saw a Challenger on the road the other day too, it was also really cool looking.

[Barklessdog]

21 Chrysler dealers closing in Chicago!

A few of them were big mega expensive building dealers. The rug pulled out from under them.


I have seen a few of them try to turn into service centers, with still no one going to them. On one hand really sad, on the other some them got it coming to them. Car salesman are not the most loved.

[gweimer]

The fallout from this will be pretty significant.  Everything from parts to advertising will feel it.  I think this will be a good time to be an independent mechanic.  I'm happy that I've been using one of those for quite a while.  I miss my guy in Cincinnati, who worked out of his garage.  He knew his stuff, and saved me a lot of money on repairs that I needed.

[Dave W]

At least neither GM nor Chrysler is at the top of this list: The Greatest Automotive Flops of the Last 25 Years

They are well-represented, though.

[lowend1]

At least neither GM nor Chrysler is at the top of this list: The Greatest Automotive Flops of the Last 25 Years

They are well-represented, though.

Whew.
At least they weren't models that I had any sort of affinity for.