GMC Denali

[Pilgrim]

Not political - just economics.

I am pretty well persuaded that we need GM and the companies it supports (at least for a few more years), but I'm starting to think they need to go through bankruptcy to force them to re-organize enough to survive.

[Basvarken]

Wow, this is mind boggling!
In The Netherlands it is considered anti social to drive around in a blatantly oversized gas guzzling SUV. It sort of screams "I don't give a hoot about global warming. Now move over, or else I'll run you over".

The badge GMC Denali is unintentionally funny over here, because it almost reads Denial, which to us says something about the attitude of lots of Americans regarding the environmental issue... Wonder if GMC ever considered renaming it Ignaronce (which is very close to...)

[Freuds_Cat]

 Holden Australia which is owned by GM has stated that as it currently stands it can continue trading and has good potential to ride this one out as long as its parent company doesn't drag it down with it.


Holden was tight lipped over the past few weeks fueling negative media speculation but has recently come out and stated that it feels it can trade through the coming recession.


'Don't worry', Holden tells SA workers
Holden says its South Australian workers will not be are affected by news that parent company General Motors has been told it might be unable to stay afloat.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/03/06/2509737.htm

[Dave W]

Wow, this is mind boggling!
In The Netherlands it is considered anti social to drive around in a blatantly oversized gas guzzling SUV. It sort of screams "I don't give a hoot about global warming. Now move over, or else I'll run you over".

The badge GMC Denali is unintentionally funny over here, because it almost reads Denial, which to us says something about the attitude of lots of Americans regarding the environmental issue... Wonder if GMC ever considered renaming it Ignaronce (which is very close to...)

IMHO most Americans aren't in denial of environmental issues. The problem is that too many of us think someone else should have to deal with them.

[Chris P.]

In some cases we're all the same here, but there are some clear cultural differences between the Americans here and the Europeans. No problem, but just nice to notice:)

[OldManC]

Another thing to consider is the ever growing number of people who believe that mankind has very little to do with variations in climate, which have occurred for many thousands of years. I'm not posting this to argue in either direction, I just want to point out that car buying decisions for many don't necessarily include fealty to environmental theories.

When gas prices spiked last year SUV sales in the US flatlined, but sales went right back up the minute prices started falling. Of course, now that oil prices are creeping back up, I'm sure sales will fall again. Trucks and SUVs can be incredibly useful to own when the price of fuel is within reason. The U in Sport Utility Vehicle has many practical applications, or it could be that the buyer just wants a large vehicle. If there's any denial going on with SUV buyers, it seems to be denial of the volatility of oil prices these days.

[Pilgrim]

I'm one of those who do believe that we've had an impact on the environment, and I try to do sensible things in terms of recycling, etc.  However, I simply don't believe we have great options in vehicles yet. From everything I've heard, travel in the US is quite different than in Europe.  I live in the Western US where there is no public transportation and traveling to Denver for dinner or an evening meeting is a 120-mile round trip (60 miles each way) and visiting my family means an 1100-mile trip one way!  I'm not aware that there are electric vehicles at this point which will let me jump in and drive 500+ miles in one day, or 1100 miles in two days.

I also live at 5000 feet in an area where it can be 60 degrees one day and we can have two inches of snow and ice the next day.  A mid-size SUV with 4WD like my '99 Blazer makes perfect sense for my family in this situation, and by US standards it is NOT a gas-guzzler.  In town I get around 16, and 20 or 21 on the highway.  People can think anything they want to, but each of us needs to find his/her own practical solution to transportation issues.  The US is still a country set up for automobiles, and that's the right tool for the job.

Oh -and my wife refuses to drive a mini-van. Won't even accept one as a rental car.  I can't disagree with her.  If you can't drive something you enjoy, what's the point?

I'd love to do long-range travel - or travel to Denver and back - via train...but there aren't any passenger lines where I travel.  I hope that we find a way to rebuild the passenger train system in the US, but right now cars or airplanes are much faster and significantly cheaper.

[Lightyear]

........ That being said, I'd rather the whole company sank than see my childrens' future mortgaged so that GM can survive.

I hope this wasn't too political.

AMEN BROTHER!!

Well said!

[Pilgrim]

........ That being said, I'd rather the whole company sank than see my childrens' future mortgaged so that GM can survive.

I have to agree with that.  My concern - and I think the larger concern - is that GM has so many business relationships, support companies, dealerships, suppliers and others who depend on them for business. There is some realistic concern about whether letting them go completely out will be like throwing an anchor to a drowning economy.

That's why I have asserted that I am increasingly inclined to let them go bankrupt, but not in such a way that the company would be dissolved and dismantled.  A bankruptcy that allows them to re-design their business and re-emerge (similar to what airlines have gone through) looks increasingly logical to me.

[Freuds_Cat]

That's why I have asserted that I am increasingly inclined to let them go bankrupt, but not in such a way that the company would be dissolved and dismantled.  A bankruptcy that allows them to re-design their business and re-emerge (similar to what airlines have gone through) looks increasingly logical to me.

Thats exactly what happened to Holden back in the last recession Pilgrim. They went pretty much belly up. They were refinanced by GM on the condition that they rebuilt the business on a  Worlds Best Practice model. Which they did.  How ironic that they are now telling GM to leave them alone so they dont get dragged down with them.

[lowend1]

That being said, I'd rather the whole company sank than see my childrens' future mortgaged so that GM can survive.

If our kids' futures are being mortgaged, it's due more to the money that is being funneled to banks, insurance companies, and a plethora of special interest programs. The amount that is going to Detroit is *comparatively* small.

[Captcolour]

When GM started Saturn in the early '90s, it was not expected to make any money for about 10 years.  Not sure the brand ever made any money for them.  Right now, Saturn is pretty much the US distributor for Opel.  If and when GM comes out of this, I believe it will have a line up of Chevy, Buick and Cadillac -- good, better, best concept.  Vehicle-wise, they are positioned pretty well right now.  The Malibu is positioned well against Accord and Camry.  The Traverse is positioned better than Pilot.  The Volt is coming soon too.  If they can weather the storm of 2009, they will be OK in my opinion.

The Chrysler/Fiat/Renault merger seems like a good one.  Better fit for Chrysler than Daimler/Mercedes.  Gives Chrysler instant access to smaller vehicles for the US market if they choose to import them initially.

Ford has been doing a good job over the last 2 years of re-defining itself.  They are probably the strongest of the D3 right now.