U2

[nofi]

when he had hair.

[Dave W]

And our well-read Moderator immediately spotted that "And the meek shall inherit the earth." is an Ayn Rand quote back from the days when Neil Peart would still read anything from her as if it were the (neo con) gospel and drenched his lyrics with it. Looking at the world today and how Keynes has risen from the dead, you can't really say we live in an era where her views prevail though.

Using Ayn Rand to put down Bono is quite a feat though, you've gotta admit!!! 

I'm officially stunned. 

[OldManC]

I may be wrong, but I thought of a far different and more timeless source for Dave's quote, Uwe...

Though I would gladly read or hear any quote from Ayn Rand (I think you probably knew that). I'd argue the neo bit though, seeing as her writing is approaching 71 years in print.

[Dave W]

The Sermon on the Mount, Ayn Rand and neocons... does not compute, even though it was Uwe's attempt at humor (let me stress the attempt part  ).

[Rocker949]

I've never liked U2, although I've certainly never had anything against the members of U2 personally.  Through the years, I've often had trouble trying to understand why they got to be so popular.  I've even tried hard to like even one of their songs, but so far have been unable to.  Now that I've read this thread, though, I realize that I also don't understand some of the other reasons why other people don't like U2, since their reasons seem to be different in many ways than mine. 

[uwe]

The Sermon on the Mount, Ayn Rand and neocons... does not compute, even though it was Uwe's attempt at humor (let me stress the attempt part  ).

I honestly had no idea   it came from the Sermon on the Mount. I first read it on the cover of Rush's 2112 in the mid-seventies and attributed it to Ayn Rand as it also prefaces one of her books ("Anthem", on which the concept of 2112 is based) she wrote. And I know that while good old Ayn left us a decade or more ago (not sure whether she doesn't regard heaven as too much a collectivist place though ...), that still doesn't take away her place in the spirit shrine of neocon thinking, she was after all an anti-collectivist and ultra-liberal thinker (in the market freedom and less-government-is-good sense of the term, not in the sense US Conservatives use it against people who are, eg, for anti-gun laws and against death penalty), "Freedom of man is the freedom from (the responsibility for) his brothers." was one of the mantra phrases she coined.

So I inadvertently used a quote from the Sermon on the Mount to put down the four arch-Catholics from Ireland and their unbearably pious mysticism that permeates their lyrics? That is even more bloody brilliant!

It also shows that while I did read quite a bit of the Bible (at an age when I was already an agnostic), I didn't do it with quite the commitment I devoted to Rush sleeves or Ayn Rand's books which I found perversely intriguing. As some of you may have noticed, I enjoy reading things I totally disagree with. 

Uwe

PS: George, is that you again, in your new avatar pic testing the diversitiy boundaries of the Republican party? 

PPS: What I don't like musically about U 2? After a few songs from them I tend to miss riffs (to me a riff is something like "Burn" or "Smoke on the Water", best played in root note and fourths over the D and G string of a guitar ... yes, Deep Purple did have some influence on my musical taste  ) and a little angularness (which Rush have loads of) in their music, it becomes too smooth and drony with little instrumental highlights for me. The lyrics leave me utterly cold.

[Basvarken]

I prefer David Lee Roth's paraphrase: "The meek shall inherit ... SHIT!"

[Rocker949]

I have read about this statement quite a bit and now I wish I had been paying more attention.  However, I do know that the word "meek" as it has been translated into English from the Greek is not really very accurate.  "Meek" gives the impression of being passive and letting people run over you.  It is my understanding that the real meaning is closer to the Greek idea of moderation, something very important to the ancient Greeks.  Even Aristotle said something to the effect that moderation is the key.  Whatever the Greek word is, though, it isn't something negative the way so many people seem to think.  It means someone who is poised and has inner strength, not someone who is a wimp.

[eb2]

They're alright.  The lost me after War.  Pretty decent before that. 

Ahh, biblical translations.  Such a quagmire, what with Thou Shalt Not Murder vs Kill; Meek vs Self-restrained.  It does allow us to blame the Greeks again for something.  But it did come into this via Geddy Lee, so in that there is true amusement.  U2 is a preachy band prone to wide swings in quality, but at least they were never as moronic as Rush.

[uwe]

I have a faint recollection now ... That in the Sermon on the Mount "the meek" was used as an euphemism for "gentle people", i.e. with a positive connotation, while Ayn Rand (IIRC, Ayn thought all religion humbug and preached her brand of "objectivism" according to which only objective circumstances whose existence can be evidenced should determine how people act with and to one another) and Rush saw it as a reference to collectivist weaklings ruling over the potential superiority of the individual mind. Her experiences in Russia post Russian Revolution (she came to the US on a visa in 1925 and never returned to Russia) at work here, no doubt.

Uwe

[Basvarken]

I have read about this statement quite a bit and now I wish I had been paying more attention.  However, I do know that the word "meek" as it has been translated into English from the Greek is not really very accurate.  "Meek" gives the impression of being passive and letting people run over you.  It is my understanding that the real meaning is closer to the Greek idea of moderation, something very important to the ancient Greeks.  Even Aristotle said something to the effect that moderation is the key.  Whatever the Greek word is, though, it isn't something negative the way so many people seem to think.  It means someone who is poised and has inner strength, not someone who is a wimp.

In Dutch it's: "de zachtmoedigen zullen de aarde beërven".
"zachtmoedig" is translated as "mild" or "gentle".

[Stjofön Big]

Just for your information, friends: The Nederlandian word "zachtmoedig" is "saktmodig" in Swedish. And then they try to tell you that.... (and so on, and so on) 

[Basvarken]

Yep that's what you get when you start a U2 topic over here 

[Chris P.]

I have contact with friends of my brother wo are from South Afrika and they live near me now. We can understand eachother, cos the SA is like very old Dutch. But I really have to concentrate in mails and during conversations, but it's very nice and funny.

For 'the' we have 'de' or 'het' while the SA only have 'die'. We have a lot of English words in our language like 'lift' for elevator or lift. They call is 'hijsbakkie' which is like a direct translation in Dutch. And so on.  

[Rocker949]

The word "meek" just has a negative meaning to it in English.  I don't know anyone who wants to be known as a meek person.  All these other translations of the Greek word sound better to me.  I've just been told by a Dutch speaker that she would translate "zachtmoedig" as kindhearted.  That certainly sounds a lot better than "meek."  I know a great bassist who is very kindhearted, but I wouldn't call him meek.  He is very considerate, but anyone who gets into a discussion with him, for instance, about the originality of bass lines in various genres of music does so at his own peril.