Let's see your rig!

[Granny Gremlin]

Fascinating stuff,, thanks.

I suspect the much lower cost to design and build a sealed cab may be a factor ...

Yes.  Also size.

[slinkp]

That's why I'm still baffled by how the heck the EA CXL112 does what it does.  It goes very deep and very flat for the box size, while retaining similar efficiency to a ported cab.  They say it's based on TL design, but I don't understand how they can fit a line of useful length in that box size, so I wonder if that's really what it is.   I do'nt know how it compares to their other models because I haven't played through any of them except the CXL110, but that 112 still amazes me.  It did cost an arm and a leg though, relative to other 112 cabs. And I'm not crazy about the tweeter.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Most of what people assume to be "bass" frequencies are typically low midrange from 100Hz-250Hz. Eden's old XLT cabs were popular because they had an enormous low mid response but very little true bass.  Anything below 60Hz is perceived as feeling more than audio (we hear the harmonic intervals of ground loops interacting with analog audio more than the actual sine-wave of a 60 Hz, AC power's modulation in the US and 50Hz in other countries); literally we feel lows better than we hear them, so most cabinets sound "flat" or "natural" so long as they keep a relatively modest low midrange bloom and transition into upper bass frequencies. A truly bass accurately tuned 1x12" would be little more than a subwoofer. Another side effect of increased bass response is a psychoacoustic perception of corresponding added upper midrange, and why most "loud" EQ presets also boost the extreme high frequencies in order for the more apparent (the actual amount of high mid output is unchanged) to not make sibiliance frequencies seem diminished.  The tweeter in your EA most likely has a "low" frequency response that overlaps with the clearer upper mids from having a bigger bottom and this can make the driver sound "harsh."

[slinkp]

I am very familiar with the Eden XLT-210, used to own one.  It was loud as hell at low G and dropped off like a rock down to low E, which drove me nuts.
And I have learned to hear the difference between low-mids and true fundamentals in 40-80Hz range.  (For years I played gear that had effectively no response down there, so this is relatively new to me, like last 10 years or so.)

The EA CXL-112 is quite different.  Not a very scientific test as I didn't have an anechoic chamber or measurement mics, and relied on my biased ear and brain, but I did on one occasion play a synth set to a sine wave through it and listen for notes that appeared to be louder or softer.  Unless there was a lot of harmonic distortion going on, that should have given me pretty pure fundamentals. It sounded pretty damn even to my ears right down to low E and beyond (I forget how far).  I tried the same thing on some other cabs that were around and the results were pretty comical.  We had a Schroeder 1210 and an old Hartke 115 and an Acme B-1 and I forget what else lying around.  The Acme was very smooth too, the others were all over the place, each in its own way.

[slinkp]

As to the EA CXL112L tweeter... I'm not sure if it's the horn (unusually large for a bass cab), the driver, the crossover, the transition between the horn and the 12, or all of the above; but what I hear is the upper mids are rather forward to the point of being a bit obnoxious.  If it weren't for that, I could happily listen to CDs through it, or use it as a PA cab.  I've certainly heard a lot of worse PA cabs.  For bass, I usually turn the tweeter pad most of the way down.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I am very familiar with the Eden XLT-210, used to own one.  It was loud as hell at low G and dropped off like a rock down to low E, which drove me nuts.
And I have learned to hear the difference between low-mids and true fundamentals in 40-80Hz range.  (For years I played gear that had effectively no response down there, so this is relatively new to me, like last 10 years or so.)

I wasn't slamming your EA cab or your hearing, just speaking about bass cab design and use in general. I've heard nothing but good things about EA but have only played a 2x8 cab, IIRC, from them years ago that I found very impressive, like an original SWR Baby Blue combo. That cabinet didn't have much in the way of extreme lows but was very tight and even across the range it did cover and a great onstage bass cabinet for PA's with subs to handle the bottom for players using the PA for bass.  I generally don't, but I have engineered for shows with players who did and the PA handled the bottom while the smaller cabinet provided stage volume that worked well with it.  Your own experience with what was once considered the industry standard of bass cabs, the Eden XLT, demonstrates that you had to train your ear to what your bass cabs were actually doing and once you did, it was eye opening. Most bass players don't and other cabinets are designed for volume or attention rather than even tone.

We had a Schroeder 1210 and an old Hartke 115 and an Acme B-1 and I forget what else lying around.  The Acme was very smooth too, the others were all over the place, each in its own way.

I have an Acme Series 1 4x10 and it is my benchmark for good tight, lows and it has both a midrange driver and tweeter, which I do attenuate using the selectors on the back. Most of my cabinets have a very similar inherent tonality to it, especially old SVT coffin cabinets, which are just as deep in reach, not as efficient in the bottom, but louder overall. Every post-1986 SVT is a different story, very little deep bottom at all. Ironically, my least low-end friendly cabs all are based around 15" drivers, which most people associate with low end: my Traynor YBA-1A 2x15 and Marshall JCM800 4x15, but the 2x12's I have, including my Bag End subs used as instrument cabs without the processor, have a great low end. I don't really care for "modern" bass tone since my attack is very hard and midrange-heavy already. I unhooked the horn in my Nemesis 8x10 because it made a great sounding bottom horrible in the upper mids and without it, the cabinet is plenty present already. I know when it was made, it was supposed to be a "budget" alternative to then-current 8x10's, including its upmarket brother the Eden XLT 810 and Ampeg's big ported 8x10's (discontinued when Loud bought them) and SVT 8x10's, but it has a better low end and smoother response than all of them. A perfect example of what I meant by true bass response making a 12" driver less responsive are my Ernie Ball 2x12's which have a midrange driver as a well as a horn and unlike most similarly equipped cabinets, the midrange driver and horn are not there to make the cabinet "extra present;" they just even out the mids leaving the 12's to focus on low end.

As to the EA CXL112L tweeter... I'm not sure if it's the horn (unusually large for a bass cab), the driver, the crossover, the transition between the horn and the 12, or all of the above; but what I hear is the upper mids are rather forward to the point of being a bit obnoxious.  If it weren't for that, I could happily listen to CDs through it, or use it as a PA cab.  I've certainly heard a lot of worse PA cabs.  For bass, I usually turn the tweeter pad most of the way down.

It sounds like you like the same tone I do.  Electro Voice's old SX series of molded 1x12 PA cabs, including the powered 1x12 subwoofer make nice bass practice cabinets and seem to have been designed around a similar philosophy, one that has been disregarded with more modern PA designs, most of which are powered, which favor overall volume and electronic tonal adjustment rather than even response. If you ever get a chance to compare one of the regular SX200 or SX300 PA cabs to your EA CX112L, I'll bet that they are similar sounding with your EA having a better bottom and more forward midrange. Before my health went, I was designing an 8x12 based on the SVT coffin but having more volume and bottom.

[slinkp]

More volume than an 810 coffin? 
I only gigged through a (borrowed) vintage SVT head and coffin rig once. Not sure of the era, but it looked pretty old. Small club.  I liked it, but I had to really restrain myself. My poor bandmates

If I was ever looking for a new, large rig, I would probably look into sealed cabs. Space is at a premium though.  Having a family in Brooklyn doesn't leave a lot of room for gear!

[Granny Gremlin]

I am very familiar with the Eden XLT-210, used to own one.  It was loud as hell at low G and dropped off like a rock down to low E, which drove me nuts.
And I have learned to hear the difference between low-mids and true fundamentals in 40-80Hz range.  (For years I played gear that had effectively no response down there, so this is relatively new to me, like last 10 years or so.)

The EA CXL-112 is quite different.  Not a very scientific test as I didn't have an anechoic chamber or measurement mics, and relied on my biased ear and brain, but I did on one occasion play a synth set to a sine wave through it and listen for notes that appeared to be louder or softer.  Unless there was a lot of harmonic distortion going on, that should have given me pretty pure fundamentals. It sounded pretty damn even to my ears right down to low E and beyond (I forget how far).  I tried the same thing on some other cabs that were around and the results were pretty comical.  We had a Schroeder 1210 and an old Hartke 115 and an Acme B-1 and I forget what else lying around.  The Acme was very smooth too, the others were all over the place, each in its own way.

The EA is a TL.  As such it does not suffer from the same amount of cabinet resonance issues as a sealed or bass reflex cab would; the backwave is mostly nullified in terms of it's detrimental effects both in this regard as well as other distortions (e.g. the backwave bouncing back to hit the cone - this also doesn't happen in a TL, or happens a lot less).  This is one of the reasons I love them so dang much (and why guitards love open backs - similar benefit, just at the cost of bass response in that case).

[Psycho Bass Guy]

More volume than an 810 coffin?

...says the guy with four 8x10's, two 2x15's and a 4x15. I believe in volume, from ME. If I was running FOH for myself with a big PA, I would still be that way, at least for a loud rock band. The idea was actually to have better low end at lower volume since the 12"s would be moving more air and have lower innate resonance. Hearing just how low and loud my Bag End 2x12's get let me know that it wasn't a dumb idea. I started volume calculations based on a then-available 32 ohm 12" with a 3" voice coil from Weber which was discontinued when Ted died. Any other speaker manufacturer would consider a 32 ohm 12" with a decent X-mech, Q, and V-min a custom order and I'd be in for a huge amount of money just in drivers. That was a long time ago and life has been very rough in the interim so it never got past planning.

[Aussie Mark]

Here's my rig from last Saturday night's gig with the Stones tribute (the Ampegs are all hollow props, BTW)...

[gearHed289]

I've used this on my last 2 trips to the studio. 70s Ampeg B-15. Sounds really great! I've been using the 4001CS strung with flats for some of the stuff I record for Michelle Cross. For my own stuff, it's my black Ric, now with Alembic pups and pre.

[patman]

My early 80's live rig was a 4001 and a B-15...it sounded wonderful...I just mic'd with an SM 57...

[gearHed289]

My early 80's live rig was a 4001 and a B-15...it sounded wonderful...I just mic'd with an SM 57...

Hard to go wrong with that rig!

[chromium]

Love that CS!

Here's my latest rig 

[Dave W]

THR10? It must work okay for bass if you're using it.