Has Gibson ditched the Babicz bridge?

Dave W · July 24, 2018, 08:00:35 PM

I usually browse Reverb sales just to see what's offered, even though I'm not in the market for anything. This was in the 10% off sale by GearTrader57: 2018 SG Bass in mint condition. That's not the Babicz bridge we've seen up to now, and it looks like a standard 3-point. They say the bass looks unplayed, plastic is still on the pickguard. Would somebody have replaced the bridge on an unplayed bass and then sell or trade it, or has Gibson gone back to the regular 3-point? Makes me wonder if Babicz could have stopped shipments due to the Chapter 11.

amptech · July 25, 2018, 12:39:52 AM

If we cross our fingers and hope for the best, the 2019 models will have the two point bar bridge

Basvarken · July 25, 2018, 12:57:54 AM

Quote from: Dave W on July 24, 2018, 08:00:35 PM
Makes me wonder if Babicz could have stopped shipments due to the Chapter 11.

That would make perfect sense to me.

I have also noticed that Babicz bridges have been extremely hard to get lately. The shops that used to have them readily available no longer have them in stock. I had to wait three months till the one I ordered finally showed up. When it did show up, I noticed it came in a completely different package. The earlier one came in a nice box with foam. The new one is wrapped in a cheaper blister. And the bridge is not produced in USA. (or were they never?)

gearHed289 · July 25, 2018, 08:16:25 AM

This was just posted on the official Gibson Facebook page a few days ago, so IDK?

Granny Gremlin · July 25, 2018, 10:44:23 AM

Quote from: Dave W on July 24, 2018, 08:00:35 PM
Would somebody have replaced the bridge on an unplayed bass and then sell or trade it, or has Gibson gone back to the regular 3-point?

Wouldn't you be able to see the impression the larger Babicz would make in the wood under the 3 point if it was changed out?

Simplest answer is pre babicz NOS or, as you suggested, Babicz no longer shipping to Gibson (whether due to the bankrupcy or whether Babicz is having it's own supply issues as Rob is suggesting).

Dave W · July 25, 2018, 12:54:57 PM

Quote from: Basvarken on July 25, 2018, 12:57:54 AM
That would make perfect sense to me.

I have also noticed that Babicz bridges have been extremely hard to get lately. The shops that used to have them readily available no longer have them in stock. I had to wait three months till the one I ordered finally showed up. When it did show up, I noticed it came in a completely different package. The earlier one came in a nice box with foam. The new one is wrapped in a cheaper blister. And the bridge is not produced in USA. (or were they never?)

Babicz is relatively small and if Gibson owes them a lot of money, they could be in real trouble, especially since it's almost certainly unsecured.

I'm fairly sure they were originally made in USA, but since you mentioned it, I looked on eBay and found a pic of a Babicz tune-o-matic guitar bridge in the blister packaging with a view of the back. It does say Made in Taiwan. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's a Made In Taiwan price. But they're more expensive than USA Hipshots.

Quote from: Granny Gremlin on July 25, 2018, 10:44:23 AM
Wouldn't you be able to see the impression the larger Babicz would make in the wood under the 3 point if it was changed out?

Probably.

Quote from: Granny Gremlin on July 25, 2018, 10:44:23 AMSimplest answer is pre babicz NOS or, as you suggested, Babicz no longer shipping to Gibson (whether due to the bankrupcy or whether Babicz is having it's own supply issues as Rob is suggesting).

The bass is listed as a 2018 and Babicz has been standard on the SG Bass since 2015, so I don't think it could be pre-Babicz NOS, especially since the bass in the listing is in a new finish for 2018. Soon there will be a full list of Gibson creditors, it will be interesting to see.

Basvarken · July 25, 2018, 01:54:13 PM

Quote from: Dave W on July 25, 2018, 12:54:57 PM
I'm fairly sure they were originally made in USA, but since you mentioned it, I looked on eBay and found a pic of a Babicz tune-o-matic guitar bridge in the blister packaging with a view of the back. It does say Made in Taiwan. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's a Made In Taiwan price. But they're more expensive than USA Hipshots.

The old package does not mention the country where it's made, but I do also think it was made in USA. The new blister package says Made In Taiwan indeed.
I have the feeling that the new bridge has a thinner layer of black paint than the original one. I had to move the saddles a bit for intonation and it immediately got some scratches showing the bare metal from underneath the thin layer of paint.

planetgaffnet · July 26, 2018, 03:05:37 AM

Quote from: Dave W on July 24, 2018, 08:00:35 PM
I usually browse Reverb sales just to see what's offered...

I guess the first thing that came to mind was on my frequent trips to the USA, your businesses do love to advertise things early. I'm not being asinine here, you do see plenty of advertisements such as 'Come on down to Buckler County Ford, by the Valley Mall Shopping Center on Highway 21 and see the new 2019 SUVs and F-350s', when it's still late Spring/early Summer of 2018. This applies to guitars as much as vehicles.

Without verification of the serial number, it could be classified as a mid-2017 model, but yes, I concur there's some weirdness.

(I just dropped the image of the reverse into Photoshop...the serial number is blotched out, but at 400% the year of manufacture gets scratchy. It could read as 2016 or 2018.)

Dave W · July 26, 2018, 08:13:07 AM

Quote from: planetgaffnet on July 26, 2018, 03:05:37 AM
I guess the first thing that came to mind was on my frequent trips to the USA, your businesses do love to advertise things early. I'm not being asinine here, you do see plenty of advertisements such as 'Come on down to Buckler County Ford, by the Valley Mall Shopping Center on Highway 21 and see the new 2019 SUVs and F-350s', when it's still late Spring/early Summer of 2018. This applies to guitars as much as vehicles.

Without verification of the serial number, it could be classified as a mid-2017 model, but yes, I concur there's some weirdness.

(I just dropped the image of the reverse into Photoshop...the serial number is blotched out, but at 400% the year of manufacture gets scratchy. It could read as 2016 or 2018.)

That's true of autos and some other products but AFAIK Gibson is the only musical instrument company with official model years, and that only goes back about 10 years.

This one can't be a 2016, since the SG Bass was dropped for the 2016 model year. The walnut finish was never offered until the 2018 model year, which was introduced last fall, so that's the earliest this one could have been made. And in any case, the Babicz has been standard since the start of the 2015 model year.

doombass · July 26, 2018, 02:53:36 PM

I think the best bet is that Babicz ditched Gibson out of not being paid for past deliveries.

Chris P. · July 26, 2018, 03:16:19 PM

My publisher got an official mail that no open invoices would be paid. We are lucky everything was paid already, cos the publisher tried his very best to get the money, the last couple of months. I can imagine suppliers got the same letter too and are not happy to ship parts.

Highlander · July 26, 2018, 04:25:55 PM

Babicz site still identifying themselves as suppliers to Gibson...

fch-4-string-bass-bridge

planetgaffnet · July 27, 2018, 03:25:14 AM

Quote from: Highlander on July 26, 2018, 04:25:55 PM
Babicz site still identifying themselves as suppliers to Gibson...

fch-4-string-bass-bridge

Babicz are one of those suppliers that are borderline lazy in updating their website; I guess if the site is functional and they don't have any new product they possibly see site updating as an unnecessary expense. They were very slow to add a Gibson page (Wayback Machine shows first add of a dedicated Gibson page was November 2017 and a slight update in January 2018, no changes since then).

Basvarken · July 27, 2018, 03:44:35 AM

Even if they quit delivering bridge for Gibson, it would still look good on their resumé.
Happens all the time.

Dave W · July 27, 2018, 10:42:36 AM

I looked at the public filings and found the top 30 creditors but there are too many interim filings to search for a complete list. No doubt Babicz is owed some serious money considering that they are a small company, whether or not that has anything to do with the bridge on this bass.

I'd rather have a Hipshot anyway.