Fretless conversions

[slinkp]

What's a reasonable price range for converting a fretted neck to fretless?
I gather it can either by done by filing down the frets, or removing them and putting in a filler of some kind.

I've never owned a fretless, and suddenly find myself thinking about ways to get the kind I want if it's not readily available.

[amptech]

Don't grind anything down.

A pair of pliers will do fine, get yourself a book (like Erlevine's guitar repair guide) and you'll get the info you need regarding how to pull
out frets from different wood/makes. Fender, as an example - put frets in sideways for a while, so if you pull them out sideways you won't
chip the wood. Wish I knew that when I was 16 and wanted to be Jaco. I unfretted maybe 4 basses I think. Filled slots with wood filler and epoxied the neck and all. For about 15 years, I played almost only fretless.

I actually unfretted a Gibson bass (1967 EB-0) in 2013 (see the LoZ fretless project posted here) just because I play short scale Gibsons now and want to keep it that way. Needed to see if they work as fretless instruments, but they don't. Too muddy and undefined, even with LoZ pickups. I filled with sawdust mixed with wood filler, easy to get out - and glad I did. Refretted it again shortly after.
The good thing, is that you get to plane/sand properly (in this case the fingerboard was oversprayed and ugly) and after the refret
it's good as new:-)

Still looking for a short scale gibson fretless project, though. I think a SB-300 or SB-350 will be a better candidate, having alder body and maple neck.

Anyway, it's easy and fun and all - if you just pay attention to the wood and be careful not chipping it apart.
The most difficult thing is to actually find an instument that works good as a fretless.
And prepare for learning how to refret, just sayin

[slinkp]

Thanks!  That's a lot of useful info.

I am 99% sure I would not be doing this myself though . Was more wondering about how to find someone to do it and what it might cost.

[Highlander]

Back in the early 80's Peter Cook converted my RD to fretless by grinding the frets down, to give me the idea for the conversion rather the permanant transformation that would be caused by filling the neck and finishing and/or capping with epoxy... specialist work and not to be attempted by amateurs...
In the late 80's Andy's in central London finished the permanant conversion and capped the neck (maple with maple inserts)...
Numerous years later I stripped the cap and use her bare-wood with Roto 77's and it is a beautiful sound with a ridiculous sustain... maple neck with maple body...
I bought a Mighty-Mite licenced neck for my Jazz which is maple with an "ebanol" cap...
I have another partly converted bass (Andreas Demetriou custom) where the frets had been badly removed by a previous owner (scrap bass buy) and the neck is just black dyed and will be epoxy capped... I filled the fret gaps with maple shimming (was a maple neck) and finished the damage with epoxy...
If you are going to finish or cap a neck yourself you need to (ideally) have a radius block to finish it... Carlo/Cataldo suggested a cheap method of making one by covering a (bare) neck with scratch and using a wood block and sanding it down to match the profile... a darn sight cheaper than buying one...
Sometimes you need to heat up the frets (soldering iron or similar) to remove them cleanly if some glue was used to secure them...
Have fun... I mostly play fretless these days...

[Dave W]

Thanks!  That's a lot of useful info.

I am 99% sure I would not be doing this myself though . Was more wondering about how to find someone to do it and what it might cost.

Hoffman Guitars here in Minneapolis (authorized repair for Gibson, Martin, Fender and others) charges $350-$450 for a refret, $100 more if it's a bound fretboard. Just pulling frets and dressing the board would certainly be less, but it will still be expensive.

If you can't do it yourself, I'd suggest buying a new fretless neck if it's a bolt-on.

[slinkp]

Ouch! Yeah, good idea, Dave, I can probably find a fretless neck I like for a lot less than that.

[Highlander]

Cost me about £100 for mine... the MM neck, that is... you could buy a fretless Squier for less than that costing and if you do not get on, move it on... there are plenty of cheap fretless bass's about to try for a while...
Are you this side of the Pond...?

[slinkp]

I'm on the left side of the pond.
For some reason I am craving a fretless Music Man, but they are pricey.
So I started thinking about other options.

I updated the family budget for the next couple months though and looks like I will have to wait a long while

[Pilgrim]

I've defretted a bass and the result was excellent, but it's a lot of work if it's done well and cleanly. In most cases if the bass has a "bolt on" (screw-on) neck, you're just as well off to buy a fretless neck and install it. Then you have options and you haven't messed with the original neck.

Honestly, if you'er curious about playing a fretless, I suggest searching Ebay for a decent fretless and buying it. You can sell it fi you don't find it's your thing. Much better idea than defretting a bass you already like.

Incidentally, TB has a ton of good information and many threads about defretting. Much of the info is good, although there are all too many people who are tasteless butchers who have no interest in workmanship and think defretting can be done with Channellocks and plastic wood.

[amptech]

In most cases if the bass has a "bolt on" (screw-on) neck, you're just as well off to buy a fretless neck and install it. Then you have options and you haven't messed with the original neck.

This might work, or not.

After a couple of years playing fretless on my molested fender p, I saved up for a better fretless neck. This was because I had used a rented (I think Sadowsky)  fretless bass for two gigs, ash body with maple/ebony neck - bartolini pickups. I loved it, but it was too expenive to buy.

So I ordered a Warmouth(?) birds eye maple neck with ebony fingerboard from the StuMac catalogue.
It was a perfect fit, and looked great - but when I played it I was shocked - it killed the tone. The instument was dead!

Up to this point I had done some modding regarding finish and pickups - but this was my first lession about instrument wood.
I think I just sat there for hours, looking at that beautiful neck that had ruined my sound:-)

[slinkp]

Hmm, thanks for the warning, Amptech. I wonder what could cause that??

I'm looking for something on the more bright and percussive end of the fretless spectrum.
I was thinking either maple or ebony board, but don't really know.
I'm not planning to slap on it much, but these would probably work for me:

[Highlander]

You can do budget as a try-out your side of the pond... there are bound to be other options until the funds are in place...

Sub $150 fretless

[Dave W]

You can do budget as a try-out your side of the pond... there are bound to be other options until the funds are in place...

Sub $150 fretless

That's a Carlo Robelli, house brand of Sam Ash stores. That would be a great price if it stays that low, which isn't likely.

This might work, or not.

After a couple of years playing fretless on my molested fender p, I saved up for a better fretless neck. This was because I had used a rented (I think Sadowsky)  fretless bass for two gigs, ash body with maple/ebony neck - bartolini pickups. I loved it, but it was too expenive to buy.

So I ordered a Warmouth(?) birds eye maple neck with ebony fingerboard from the StuMac catalogue.
It was a perfect fit, and looked great - but when I played it I was shocked - it killed the tone. The instument was dead!

Up to this point I had done some modding regarding finish and pickups - but this was my first lession about instrument wood.
I think I just sat there for hours, looking at that beautiful neck that had ruined my sound:-)

Whatever the problem was, that neck wasn't a Warmoth. Stew Mac's necks have come from Allparts or Mighty Mite. All goes to show that you never know what the result will be when you switch necks.

Hmm, thanks for the warning, Amptech. I wonder what could cause that??

I'm looking for something on the more bright and percussive end of the fretless spectrum.
I was thinking either maple or ebony board, but don't really know.
I'm not planning to slap on it much, but these would probably work for me:
.....

Neither maple or ebony are necessarily bright or percussive. IMHO the electronics make more of a difference.

[amptech]

Whatever the problem was, that neck wasn't a Warmoth. Stew Mac's necks have come from Allparts or Mighty Mite. All goes to show that you never know what the result will be when you switch necks.

Yeah, maybe my memory is faded. This was late 90's. Last year I put it on a 60's japanese fiddle hollowbody guitar to make a 'shop item', like a mini double bass. Actually it works ok, glued the neck to the body though. Just couldn't stand looking at it lying around anymore.

It had no markings except a printed 'C' and 'Made in Canada'.

[Dave W]

Yeah, maybe my memory is faded. This was late 90's. Last year I put it on a 60's japanese fiddle hollowbody guitar to make a 'shop item', like a mini double bass. Actually it works ok, glued the neck to the body though. Just couldn't stand looking at it lying around anymore.

It had no markings except a printed 'C' and 'Made in Canada'.

Then it was probably made by Godin. They were making replacement Fender-style necks back then.