Flying V Bass

[Basvarken]

Flying Vs are not per se bad-sounding guitars, sort of the Gibson Telecaster. With their thinner and snappier sound they don't clutter everything up like, say, a Les Paul would.

To my ears a Flying V doesn't sound thin or snappy at all.
I think it sounds very resonant, almost to the point of how a hollow body sounds.
And to my ears it has a bit of a nasal sound.

[Dave W]

Right. Very thin and snappy. 

[uwe]

I agree with the nasal tone (that is also an issue it creates when a bass has that shape),it has a middish characteristic, but in heavy metal too much bass with the guitars only gets in the way. And Lonnie Mack does sound snappy to me, not Telecaster-snappy, but imagine this played with a Les Paul. "Thinner and snappier" meant "thinner and snappier than a Les Paul" for Chrisssakes, but not as sharp as a Tele or Strat! As usual, I am being consciously/intentionally misunderstood by people who should know better! 

And I understand the hollow-body comparison too, Rob, I hear even an acoustic note to the tone, just listen to Andy Powell here and especially his break at 4:57:



Ah my long memory ... Many Moons ago, Rob chastized me in this forum of fora for having the nerve to insinuate that his beloved Thin Lizzy had been inspired by "boring" (so he thinks) Wishbone Ash for their twin-guitar lead sound. I was confronted with the statement that Eric Bell had already doubled thirds on Whiskey in the Jar, when Thin Lizzy were still a trio. For the benefit of historic accuracy: I only recently read an Eric Bell interview where he stated that he was dragged by Phil Lynott to a Wishbone Ash concert in the early seventies and that Lynott watched the band mesmerized ("Argus" had just been declared "album of the year" by Melody Maker and Phil Lynott was always fashion- and trend-conscious) only to ask Bell after the gig bright-eyed "Fancy getting a second lead guitarist and doing that too, huh?" to which Bell replied unimpressed: "Not really!" We all know what happened not much later. 

[Dave W]

We're completely off the Eastwood V Bass now. We're waiting for you to connect the dots to Blackmore.

[uwe]

If you - sigh! - insist, Dave: Blackmore got WA their recording contract at the time when Andy Powell, the Flying V guitarist, aped Blackmore's riffs and solos in good humour at a joint soundcheck (WA opening for DP). Blackmore didn't say a word at the time, but gave former (first three albums) DP producer Derek Lawrence a call. Lawrence invited WA, liked what he heard and offered to procure a record deal for them if they paid a 1st class ticket to the US for him. Desperate as they were and skint to boot, they took up loans from their mothers and friends and bought him an economy ticket, all they could afford, no one of them had ever flown. Their friends were already laughing how they had been duped when Lawrence finally returned from the US with an international deal from MCA in his suitcase. WA stayed with that record company for 10 years. Those were the days ...

[uwe]

All that said, I am of course of the opinion that the way the Flying V shape affects a guitar's sound bears relevance for a Flying V bass too and is perhaps the main reason why you see a lot more guitarists with Flying Vs than bassists. I severely doubt that Eastwood's offering will change that much though I happily admit that I was open-mouthed with awe and nearly creamed in my pants when I saw my first Flying V bass - an Ibanez - circa 1977/78 with local (Darmstadt) covers band "Little Johnny & The Rock Boys". I was near to storming the stage and stealing the darn thing from the bassist!  Some 10 years ago, I compensated and bought me a shabby specimen and had it lovingly resurrected. Not a great bass but a memorable first love!

[Dave W]

No doubt in my mind that body shape does affect tone. A V sure doesn't sound like a Les Paul. It stands to reason that a V shaped bass would sound different than a conventional body shape with the same woods, pickups and scale length.

Warmoth used to offer a long scale V Bass body. Tom Ray, the original bassist of the Bottle Rockets, had one (with a Fender neck). It looked enormous.

[gearHed289]

If you - sigh! - insist, Dave: Blackmore got WA their recording contract at the time when Andy Powell, the Flying V guitarist, aped Blackmore's riffs and solos in good humour at a joint soundcheck (WA opening for DP). Blackmore didn't say a word at the time, but gave former (first three albums) DP producer Derek Lawrence a call. Lawrence invited WA, liked what he heard and offered to procure a record deal for them if they paid a 1st class ticket to the US for him. Desperate as they were and skint to boot, they took up loans from their mothers and friends and bought him an economy ticket, all they could afford, no one of them had ever flown. Their friends were already laughing how they had been duped when Lawrence finally returned from the US with an international deal from MCA in his suitcase. WA stayed with that record company for 10 years. Those were the days ...

LOL! You asked for it Dave!

[Dave W]

LOL! You asked for it Dave!

Yes I did!  He was going to get there eventually, might as well speed up the process.

[Basvarken]

I only recently read an Eric Bell interview where he stated that he was dragged by Phil Lynott to a Wishbone Ash concert in the early seventies and that Lynott watched the band mesmerized ("Argus" had just been declared "album of the year" by Melody Maker and Phil Lynott was always fashion- and trend-conscious) only to ask Bell after the gig bright-eyed "Fancy getting a second lead guitarist and doing that too, huh?" to which Bell replied unimpressed: "Not really!" We all know what happened not much later.

Okay here some alternative facts for you Uwe:

Eric Bell couldn't handle the rock n roll lifestyle that Thin Lizzy was living.
He got himself into a mess and the low point was a home coming gig in Belfast. Prior to the gig he had downed three bottles of brandy and he was so drunk he couldn't complete the gig. He stumbled off stage half way during the gig, leaving Lynott and Downey as a two piece to finish the gig. Bell never returned to the band.
Gary Moore was flown in from London to complete the Irish tour (unrehearsed) and to do a flurry of gigs in England after that. They even cut a few tracks with Moore during this period (among which Still In Love With You). But despite several attempts from Lynott and the management, Moore refused to join the band for good, leaving the band as a two piece once again.
Lynott was so fed up with guitarists quitting the band at crucial times that he decided to get two guitarists instead of just one.
From the authorised biography by Graeme Thomson: "The next time one of those cunts walks out there will be another one there. I'm not going to be caught out again"

When they auditioned for guitarists Robertson joined first and two weeks later they found Gorham. In the early days of this line-up Robertson took the lead role and Gorham was more of the rhythm guitarist. In early recordings of the Robertson/Gorham line-up you can see/hear that the twin-guitar sound hadn't settled at all.
It really took them a while (about two albums) to find that sound. It was definitely not a matter of "hey guys listen to Wishbone Ash and copy their sound.

[uwe]

Rob, you can't live in denial forever!  But I accept that Scott Gorham and Brian Robertson didn't initially have the chops (or better: musical theory) to ape WA correctly!  Tony Visconti is on record for saying that even as late as Black Rose, Gary Moore would spend hours in the studio patiently showing Scott Gorham harmony leads to what Moore had come up with.

***

" The next album 'Fighting' in 1975 saw Lizzy's style develop further with the harmonised guitar-lines of Gorham and Robertson backed up with power-chord rhythm work. As Scott recalls: 'Wishbone Ash had done the twin guitar thing before us, but we took the idea and put it into a hard rock context, with more aggression.' "

***

https://books.google.de/books?id=60Jde3l7WNwC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88&dq=Phil+Lynott+Wishbone+Ash&source=bl&ots=x6XizpUY-m&sig=ke9l-sqwCdvhlxiSr30eSr46OoU&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZ4Nu3ouPTAhWBULwKHdvcCYgQ6AEIVTAG#v=onepage&q=Phil%20Lynott%20Wishbone%20Ash&f=false

***

"For more than 45 years, Wishbone Ash, in it's many incarnations, has traveled the globe delivering music that blends equal parts blues and English Folk traditions while keeping itself firmly rooted in the Progressive Rock and psychedelic era from whence it came. The band's distinctive twin lead guitar attack was an unplanned stroke of genius and this powerful melodic technique was borrowed and updated by countless bands including Thin Lizzy and Iron Maiden."

***

"At this point, guitarist Eric Bell departed, feeling, after the hit with 'Whiskey In The Jar', that the band were becoming too commercial for his liking, and for the first of numerous occasions, Belfast born blues guitarist Gary Moore became a temporary replacement. Mr Moore and Mr Lynott were old buddies, Phil having briefly played in Moore's band Skid Row in the late 1960s. Gary Moore remained until Lynott made what would be the decisive change for the band – he was replaced not by 1, but 2 guitarists, Brian Robertson from Glasgow and Californian Scott Gorham and thus arrived the famous twin-harmony guitar frontline, so much copied in later years, becoming a power-metal trademark. Gorham says the two guitarists clicked immediately but admits that there was no grand plan and the sound came about purely by accident. (While Lizzy's twin-harmony guitar frontline was highly influential it was by no means their own creation, previously featuring in bands such as Fleetwood Mac and particularly, Wishbone Ash, though in retrospect, Lizzy seem to receive most of the credit – probably due to their commercial success)."

***

[Basvarken]

I accept that Scott Gorham and Brian Robertson didn't initially have the chops (or better: musical theory) to ape WA correctly!  Tony Visconti is on record for saying that even as late as Black Rose, Gary Moore would spend hours in the studio patiently showing Scott Gorham harmony leads to what Moore had come up with.

Haha, Robertson was an uppity little git when he joined Thin Lizzy for sure.  But he was a talented and classically schooled one too. At a very young age he was a prodigy child getting cello lessons and piano lessons. I'm quite sure his theoretical knowledge of music was more than proficient.

And, technically spoken Moore (as a stand in for Bell) was not replaced by Robertson and Gorham. Thin Lizzy toured Germany with two guitarists prior to that. John (Du) Cann and Andy Gee. Phil obviously was dead serious when he said he would never be caught out again.

[mc2NY]

Man, that is the one shape that I just cannot get used to. I had a couple flying V's.....a 6-string and an 8-string bass.....looked cool as hell but I just could not get used to playing them.

But I am OK with my mini Kubicki V's...just can't handle the full size ones.

[Basvarken]

Dusty Hill had an interesting Flying V in the early ZZ Top days

[amptech]

Dusty Hill had an interesting Flying V in the early ZZ Top days

...Complete with mudbucker, minihumbucker and the best bridge Gibson ever made!