Is there really a huge switch to flatwound strings going on?

Tim Brosnan · January 29, 2017, 08:00:46 PM

On another site, it would seem that a great majority of electric bassists are switching from roundwounds, back to flatwounds. Out in the real world however, most bassists I know and see of are still using rounds. Are you guys seeing this trend at all?

I like flats for some things, but generally, I prefer rounds. I know Carol Kaye talks about using flats for a "true bass sound," but I believe rounds still rule overall. What do you guys think?

OldManC · January 29, 2017, 08:37:24 PM

I don't know what others are doing but I have a couple basses with flats and the rest are rounds. If I had to choose only one I'd choose the rounds and adjust EQ as needed.

Dave W · January 29, 2017, 10:58:21 PM

It's a bass forum thing, not a real world thing. A lot of guys on bass forums love to talk up flats, but rounds outsell flats many times over. A few years ago I talked to the production manager of one of the large string makers who indicated that the ratio was about 30 to 1, at least with that company.

Flats fans always claim that flats last for years, but that's misleading. For one thing, flats don't have the high overtones to begin with, so naturally they don't lose them. Also, metal fatigue happens in all strings under tension, regardless of the outer wrap, and eventually the strings can't be intonated properly. When somebody claims he's had the same flats on 25 or so years, then either they've only been lightly played (or the bass was stored for years), or their intonation is off.

The only players I know who go through rounds quickly are guys who want their strings to always sound as brilliant as when they're fresh out of the package, and guys who sweat a lot or have acid sweat.

Chris P. · January 30, 2017, 03:31:31 AM

I think there IS a trend, but like Dave says, not as big as you might pressume. For my magazine I wrote an article about it and I did some research too.

When I started as a bass player there was one shop in my area who had some d'Addario Chromes in stock and nowadays the shops I visit have more choice. I asked some shops: they don't sell that much, but significantly more than before. I think it has to do with a retro sound which is quite big at the moment. Think Amy Winehouse, Vintage Trouble, Americana, old skool soul kinda music and the hipster indie stuff: the indie guys and girs want the pick/flats sound: a click and a low oomph. I see quite some bass players who bought a asian Höfner or an old solid body Höfner (or similar) for flats, or they have a second P with flats.

When I started interviewing bass players 10 years ago I ran into a flats user once a year and nowadays a lot of Dutch and international players tell me they use flats on one bass. Noel Gallagher's bass player has a Rick with flats for certain songs, John Stirratt of Wilco uses them quite a lot and some Dutch players you won't know. I know Sean Hurley of John Mayer is a fan of flats and Nathan Sudders of Guy Garvey (Elbow) told me he likes to have both. Clinician Andy Irvine loves them for recording.

I'm also trying out some brands on some basses and I just ordered a special Mustang set by La Bella.

Having said that: It doesn't surprise me that the ratio of rounds versus flats is 30 to 1. Of course no slapper at let's say the Warwick Bass Camp uses them, not many metal heads (Steve Harris of course does) use them and I guess every country has a big percentage of bass players who just gig their P or J with rounds and don't bother what's hip or not. But I think in certain genres they are used more.

Chris P. · January 30, 2017, 03:37:15 AM

PS: Switch? No. More and more used? Yes.

PS2: I thnk all records until the middle of the seventies were played with flatwounds. So a lot of old records we all love have 'm. hat might be a reason,

Basvarken · January 30, 2017, 04:09:41 AM

I never understood the hype about Tomastik flats that was going on about ten years ago.

Chris P. · January 30, 2017, 04:45:10 AM

There's more than Thomastik:) I use a set and they're not my favourite.

uwe · January 30, 2017, 07:01:49 AM

I'd say flatwound (let's include halfrounds here too) players are nowadays a respected minority with a stable population and no longer at the brink of extinction. Music shops now all carry a small range of flats (not as wide a variety as with roundwounds of course) and the days are over where you had to specifically order flatwounds (as they would not store them) and got a weird look "What do you want those for?" Moreover, some bass makers even deliver their instruments (often fretlless, hollow body or with a vintage image) with flatwounds nowadays - that was unheard of in the 80ies.

Unless stringed bass playing dies out completely, they won't be going away, but I can't see them ever overtaking roundwounds again. Most bass playing you hear on the radio is played with roundwounds, songs with a vintage click "pick & flats"-sound do exist but are mostly one-off recordings aiming at a 60ies sound.

And card-carrying Iron Maiden fans are anyhow the people that listen to flatwound bass most.

Granny Gremlin · January 30, 2017, 07:26:04 AM

Quote from: Basvarken on January 30, 2017, 04:09:41 AM
I never understood the hype about Tomastik flats that was going on about ten years ago.

I do. They have this middish thing and not too much zing, for those who don't like that. Great thump on a P or similar, for example, but doesn't work on every bass or for all tastes. They also last a long time (intonation can be adjusted, and yes it will drift over time not just due to metal fatigue but also weather - usually requires a minor tweak every half year to quarter, at least with our weather).

I prefer Pyramids on my Triumph, but they break too easy considerring the price. Next to try - those cheap Allparts no name flats we group bought a while back.

I just can't play rounds because they tear up me fingers (dishydrotic eczema) and I don't like the excessive top end anyway.

Dave W · January 30, 2017, 08:17:05 AM

Quote from: Chris P. on January 30, 2017, 03:37:15 AM
PS: Switch? No. More and more used? Yes.

PS2: I thnk all records until the middle of the seventies were played with flatwounds. So a lot of old records we all love have 'm. hat might be a reason,

I agree with your first PS. Flats have definitely become more common in the 15 years or so when they started being discussed online. Labella is a specialty company and I'm sure their business has increased. But still not even remotely near rounds in usage.

The move to rounds started in the mid 60s. JAE had a lot to do with that. Many session pros still used flats well into the 70s (and beyond) but most bassists in performing bands adopted rounds within a few years. FWIW, Danelectros always came with rounds.

Quote from: Basvarken on January 30, 2017, 04:09:41 AM
I never understood the hype about Tomastik flats that was going on about ten years ago.

Same here. As I've said before, no lows, no highs, must be TIs. Their tone is almost all warm blurry midrange, and if that sound is what you like, fine with me. But they are seriously lacking in fundamental.

Happy Face · January 30, 2017, 09:13:34 AM

Until recently I was in a cover band playing late 60s/early 70s music. I'd always bring two basses to shows - one with flats, one with rounds. The bass strung with rounds (usually a Rick) would be used for Who and a few other songs. But a majority of songs sounded better (to my worn out ears) with flats.

But I wonder if anyone in the audience noticed or cared. Probably not.

Granny Gremlin · January 30, 2017, 09:18:56 AM

Quote from: Dave W on January 30, 2017, 08:17:05 AM

Same here. As I've said before, no lows, no highs, must be TIs. Their tone is almost all warm blurry midrange, and if that sound is what you like, fine with me. But they are seriously lacking in fundamental.

Lets not exaggerate Dave. They have plenty of bottom; just that on many basses the mid bump is exacerbated by the bass' own response and it feels like the bottom is weak in comparison.

Chris P. · January 30, 2017, 11:10:19 AM

I got a free set of Thomastiks once in a strange gauge. I think the E is .096. The sound very nice on the Verythin. Enough lows.

In this vid I don't move that more than the guitar player, but the Entwistle-ish moving mandoline player makes me look like the freak drummer in the wrong band.... Well, this is not my band.

Dave W · January 30, 2017, 12:39:42 PM

Quote from: Granny Gremlin on January 30, 2017, 09:18:56 AM
Lets not exaggerate Dave. They have plenty of bottom; just that on many basses the mid bump is exacerbated by the bass' own response and it feels like the bottom is weak in comparison.

"No lows, no highs" is a deliberate exaggeration, it's my play on the old "no highs, no lows, must be Bose." But IMHO Thomastiks are seriously deficient in fundamentals. That low mid bump may fool some people, it doesn't fool my ears. Still, if it sounds good to you, that's fine with me.

Tim Brosnan · January 30, 2017, 01:35:44 PM

I think the TI jazz flats are nice strings, just not my thing.

I know session guys will usually have a bass with flats on it, but most modern music to me sounds like rounds.

No knock on anybody who likes flats, I like them for certain things. It just seems there's this big trend back to flats, although I don't think it's as much as the world wide web would have us believe.