Of mudbuckers and magnets.

[lowend1]

Just saying, but for the price of a Model 1 you can get an actual vintage mudbucker (more common too).  Never used the Model 1, and if there's only a single pup in a bass, the mudbucker isn't the most versatile thing around.

...which is exactly why the Model One was designed the way it is. It's intended purpose is to be the anti-mudbucker - while still filling the spot in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Mine has a push-pull pot to do the series-parallel thing instead of the mini toggle they give you with it. I bought mine used on the cheap.

[clankenstein]

In my eb4l I have  an epiphone pickup.it measured  1.2 k so I put it through a pearl inline mic transformer I had lying in my parts drawer.so something like 600 ohms in and 10 k out.I like it.loads of bass and punch.not loads of tops but there wasn't much there before I put it through the transformer .to me it sounds like a mud bucket only slightly  clearer. Still enough attitude to frighten small children and crack your plaster work. And there are 2 allen keys under the pup cover to balance the response.I can sure hear all the fundamentals on the e string!

[Dave W]

I don't understand how widening the magnetic field with a nail is different from widening the field with wider magnets? 

I'm leaning towards a Model One now, or potentially seeing how much a custom pickup would cost. I don't even own this bass yet. 

The EB0 pickup was beyond disappointing. I wanted something that was thumping, and it was anemic.

For the magnet to generate current in the coil, the magnetic field lines have to pass through the coil. If you widen the magnet without widening the coil, there won't be any coil in the place you want current generated. I'm no expert, that's how it was explained to me.

The Model One is not a mudbucker, but it delivers.

Just saying, but for the price of a Model 1 you can get an actual vintage mudbucker (more common too).  Never used the Model 1, and if there's only a single pup in a bass, the mudbucker isn't the most versatile thing around. 

A Model One sells for US$90. I haven't seen an original mudbucker anywhere near that price for a few years.

[Alanko]

Just saying, but for the price of a Model 1 you can get an actual vintage mudbucker (more common too).  Never used the Model 1, and if there's only a single pup in a bass, the mudbucker isn't the most versatile thing around.

Sadly this isn't the case in the UK, perhaps partly because of our tanked £££ at the moment. There is one genuine Gibson sidewinder on Ebay for £150. I can get a Model One from one of the scarce few Dimarzio retailers over here for £90 or so. My best shout for both pickups is to probably try and track down 2nd hand examples that aren't too tatty.

It seems that once the '50s and '60s Gibson basses fell out of touch with the British, with a few exceptions, they fell out of touch hard. The British Invasion bassists might have inspired a lot of US bassmen (and women) but I get the feeling that burgeoning prog rock made them obsolete before their time. As a result it is quite easy to find vintage Rickenbacker and Fender basses in the UK but I personally rarely see the mudbucker Gibsons.

Many thanks all for giving this some thought and for the quality responses.

[Granny Gremlin]

I've seen Model 1s go for more than $90, and just this week a mudbucker went for 100 (the NOS one in the shrink pack is still only 185).  Things fluctuate, but they're in the same ballpark.

Anyway, I was not commenting at all on what's the better.  I have heard both positive and negative things about the Model 1, but not actually used it myself.  Versatility can be a good thing, but the mudbucker is the tops at a certain thing - if that's what's desired there's no beating it.

It just sunk in reading this thread about the 1.2k output of the Epi bucker.  That's, like, stupid low right (even compared to a single coil)?  I wonder if that is due to some attempt to tame the mud on the repro where they put the coils in parallel vs series.  From what I recall (I ripped one out of an Epi EB0 and replaced with 70s mudbucker for a friend) the wiring is exposed and it could easily be checked or rewired for series if the above is indeed the case.  That should give it some (more) teeth.  ... but the transformer idea was brilliant [tips hat].

[FrankieTbird]

Another option is the current Gibson "Mudbucker" copy that they used in the SG bass and Midtown bass.  I'm told it's actually more like a T-bird pickup with a Mudbucker cover.  You can find them used occasionally from folks that "upgraded" their instruments.  Worth a shot if you like the Thunderbird sound.

[exiledarchangel]

It just sunk in reading this thread about the 1.2k output of the Epi bucker.  That's, like, stupid low right (even compared to a single coil)?  I wonder if that is due to some attempt to tame the mud on the repro where they put the coils in parallel vs series.  From what I recall (I ripped one out of an Epi EB0 and replaced with 70s mudbucker for a friend) the wiring is exposed and it could easily be checked or rewired for series if the above is indeed the case.  That should give it some (more) teeth.  ... but the transformer idea was brilliant [tips hat].

Those pickups are made by Gotoh I think, they are made with a much thicker wire, maybe 40 awg or something. They are almost low impedance compared to the original ones. They don't sound bad, a bit anemic, but I think that is because of the limited magnetic field. Also, I think that the row of screws can't transfer much of the magnetic field to strings, I'm not an electrical engineer, just a hack, but that is my impression. Maybe replacing the screws with a different (solid) core blade under the cover things will improve. I need to find some time to experiment...

[Dave W]

I've seen Model 1s go for more than $90, and just this week a mudbucker went for 100 (the NOS one in the shrink pack is still only 185).  Things fluctuate, but they're in the same ballpark.

Anyway, I was not commenting at all on what's the better.  I have heard both positive and negative things about the Model 1, but not actually used it myself.

Street price of the Model One is $89.99 at the major retailers. I can't find any mudbuckers in the eBay sold listings for $100. That would be the exception, not the rule. The lowest I see went for $129, the others were all above $150. IIIRC the one I bought direct from Bill cost me a little over $100 years ago. I resold that to Al, that's the one in his bass in this thread.

Those pickups are made by Gotoh I think, they are made with a much thicker wire, maybe 40 awg or something. They are almost low impedance compared to the original ones. They don't sound bad, a bit anemic, but I think that is because of the limited magnetic field. Also, I think that the row of screws can't transfer much of the magnetic field to strings, I'm not an electrical engineer, just a hack, but that is my impression. Maybe replacing the screws with a different (solid) core blade under the cover things will improve. I need to find some time to experiment...

The late 70s version of the mudbucker was also about as low as the reissues. Could also have been fewer winds with larger gauge wire and/or the coils in parallel. I don't recall anyone taking one apart to find out for sure.

Another option is the current Gibson "Mudbucker" copy that they used in the SG bass and Midtown bass.  I'm told it's actually more like a T-bird pickup with a Mudbucker cover.  You can find them used occasionally from folks that "upgraded" their instruments.  Worth a shot if you like the Thunderbird sound.

Some buyers have reported the same problem (E and/or G) dropoff with this pickup, too, although mine didn't have that problem.

It doesn't sound like a Thunderbird (nor a mudbucker either). It has the same construction but the two coils are so far separated that the sound is much different, plus it's in the neck position.

[Alanko]

It is depressing to see the RRP for a Model One at $89.99. That should cost me about £67, yet it doesn't. There isn't a bricks 'n' mortar Dimarzio dealer I can walk into either.

There does seem to be a general lack of mainstream, period-correct spec reproduction mudbuckers. Seymour Duncan offers nothing in that field, and the Dimarzio Model One was created as the solution to perceived problems with the Gibson design. There is Curtis Novak's reproduction and a few small builders elsewhere, but nothing coming off a production line. There are weird, cheap Chinese mudbuckers, such as the Artec (which I can no longer find for sale) or the Gotoh, but the latter at least doesn't meet the correct specs.

[amptech]

There does seem to be a general lack of mainstream, period-correct spec reproduction mudbuckers.

To me, that just makes sense. The market for mudbuckers seems to be limited, an aquired taste you might say. This forum i guess is the exception, though even here you have gibson bass lovers who finds the original mudbucker somewhat limited in the tone departement.

After all, though expensive at the moment, original units are plentiful. The last mudbucker i bought on ebay cost me about $60 without cover, but I waited a long time for one that cheap. Another point is that you can find good gibson bass projects anywhere at better prices than other vintage basses (rick, fender) if you are looking for mudbucker equipped ones and not Tbirds - if you look outside ebay.

I can't see any manufacturer in his right mind would decide to put a period correct 60's mudbucker into large scale production, no matter how much I love that damn thing!

[Granny Gremlin]

Street price of the Model One is $89.99 at the major retailers.

It's still in production - Thought it was long gone?  Never seen one new but I haven't exactly been looking lately (I did years ago).  Did they reissue it recently or something?

[lowend1]

There's this, too.
The specs are nearly the same, but the pole spacing is a little wider for long scale basses.
http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/bass/standard-bass/will-power-neck

[Alanko]

To me, that just makes sense. The market for mudbuckers seems to be limited, an aquired taste you might say.

I suppose. Bassists are quite happy to upgrade Squier and SX basses, so it seems odd that there is only a fairly limited range of pickups for Epiphone EB0 owners, to give one example.

[Granny Gremlin]

It's a much smaller market (vs say standard P or J form factor stuff).  Especially before the Epi (and then Gibson) reissues started dropping.  Might be more worth it now, but still not as lucrative as F style stuff.

The other popular option a few years back was the Bisonic (or the various reissues/repros; e.g. Dark Star).

[lowend1]

I'm sure somebody would rewind a single unit to spec (for the right price).