The sincerest form of flattery or...

[lowend1]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpd5cNw1IkA&feature=youtu.be

[uwe]

Except for the Warpig - Rockstar one, I was aware of all of them (Gillan must have certainly heard that before he came up with Fireball). Sure, Purple stole, not even their core sound was original, they patterned themselves after Vanilla Fudge, but they did it with some style, grabbing a riff here and there and elevating that then to the central motif (ostinate repetition of riffs was the core of their sound concept in the Blackmore heydays) of "their" (new or new'ish) song.

And when caught, Purple were at least good-natured about it. Compare this to Jummy Page who has the nerve to state today that he heard Spirit's Taurus only post-millenium when in fact Spirit and Zep were gigging together in the late 60ies in the US. Ouch, that should really be beneath you, Jimmy. And those chords/voicings to Taurus/Stairway are so idiosyncratic that coming up with them by yourself just out of coincidence (without having heard or seen them before) is just not a realistic option. That's like Albert Hammond's unusual chord progression in The Air that I Breathe (G, B major! , C, C Minor) which gave Radiohead's Creep purloinment away once and for all - that tell-tale B major following a G major doesn't happen all that often in popular music (unless Kurt Kobain is mindlessly moving bar chords up and down the fretboard!).

[Highlander]

I like that...

All I can say is that Randy California (who was scheduled to dep for RB once, or did he play one gig?) was gentlemanly enough to let it ride, and it's only his estate that are going after it...

I've previously pointed all this out years back, so why not get Rick Nelson's estate to join into the litigation with a popular refrain from the same tune... listen at roughly the 4.10 mark... hmm, maybe a hint of Freebird in there too...

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LnAux3WEc4&nohtml5=False

[Dave W]

This ridiculous lawsuit is exhibit number umpteen as to why copyright should be eliminated.

I won't be surprised if a jury of imbeciles comes back with a multimillion dollar award.

[uwe]

Which one do you mean, the Stairway to Heaven one? I disagree, the Zeps should have taken care of that long ago by a decent payment or co-credit.

[Highlander]

California's sitting on a cloud, chuckling away...

[westen44]

Which one do you mean, the Stairway to Heaven one? I disagree, the Zeps should have taken care of that long ago by a decent payment or co-credit.

I agree with you.  But I think the general public is mostly pro-Zep.  I honestly didn't realize they were so adored, but it appears I was wrong.  I have a pretty good drummer friend who once almost walked out of a recording session because he thought he heard the studio engineer say something negative about John Bonham.  Based on comments I've read about this case I think there are more people like that than might be expected.  For instance, the comments on this NPR article are 10 to 1 in favor of LZ.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/04/12/473949561/stairway-to-heaven-plagiarism-suit-against-led-zeppelin-is-cleared-for-jury-tria

[Dave W]

Which one do you mean, the Stairway to Heaven one? I disagree, the Zeps should have taken care of that long ago by a decent payment or co-credit.

Yes, the Stairway to Heaven one. It's not the same song. Copying a riff isn't plagiarizing a song.

You know I'm not a Led Zeppelin fan. That doesn't mean I want to see them have to pay. This lawsuit is dead wrong.

The copyright monopoly is a threat to freedom of expression and culture.

[Highlander]

Not dug into this but who's the folks moving this one...? Who stands to benefit...?

[uwe]

Dave, it's not just a riff, it is the whole friggin' signature intro of the song. And that intro defines the song, if people play/ape Stairway to Heaven in a guitar shop, that is what they play, not Jimmy Page's solo at the end of the song. Those intro arpeggios have anybody who has listened to the radio in the last 40 years (especially in the US!) recognize that song immediately.



But its not just a bunch of chords, Zep chose the same mood/phrasing that it's uncanny.



I'm not saying that Page sat down with the Spirit track and decided "I'm gonna steal this from them." But I find it hard to rule out that he had heard the Spirit song before and that its progression and mood had not sat with him.

Whether that warrants a judgement today awarding zillions and or a co-write credit to Mark Andes and California's estate is another matter, but I've sure seen more frivolous cases.  And Page might have graciously dealt with it sometime around the millenium by buying California's widow a house and seeing that his kids get a good education. It would have been the decent thing to do given what the song has done for Page and his compatriots.

It has nothing to do with me liking to knock Zeppelin around a bit (all of it in jest, Zep fans are generally a humorless bunch with religious zeal so they make a good target), if this was Purple I'd actually be even stricter in my views about it. With Zeppelin, I'm not expecting much, they went through the Peter Grant school of things and have always been bullies.

That said, whether they "loaned" that signature part of the song or not plays no role for Zeppelin's status in the pantheon of rock, they have other merits and songs they can be proud of. Himmel, I never even liked "Stairway ..." in the first place, for me it will forever sound pasted together and unremarkable with a jammy, but hardly brilliant ending, but music lovers worldwide beg to differ so who am I?

[Dave W]

Dave, it's not just a riff, it is the whole friggin' signature intro of the song. And that intro defines the song, if people play/ape Stairway to Heaven in a guitar shop, that is what they play, not Jimmy Page's solo at the end of the song. Those intro arpeggios have anybody who has listened to the radio in the last 40 years (especially in the US!) recognize that song immediately.

But its not just a bunch of chords, Zep chose the same mood/phrasing that it's uncanny.

I'm not saying that Page sat down with the Spirit track and decided "I'm gonna steal this from them." But I find it hard to rule out that he had heard the Spirit song before and that its progression and mood had not sat with him.

It's in the same style. Page was undoubtedly influenced by it. But it's not the same notes, and it's not as if Page took a whole Spirit song and claimed authorship of it.

Even if the intro was the same note for note, it still should not be protected. Copyright, as bad as it is, legally covers songs, not instrumental segments of songs - not that I expect a jury to understand that. What's next? Should Paul, Yoko and Ringo sue anyone who plays an Fadd9 at the start of a song?

[Pilgrim]

Opining what should be is different than recognizing what it. We've reached the point where sampling a few beats or a couple of measures of a song can lead to a copyright lawsuit, and one that the original artist is likely to win.  IMO copyright is an important protection, but the extreme interpretation of copyright shown in recent sampling lawsuits is ridiculous.

[uwe]

Madonna sampled huge parts of ABBA's Gimme Gimme (Your Love After Midnight), she asked nicely beforehand and offered money, ABBA gave it to her for free, feeling honored. Smart girl she was, sometimes decorum counts a lot.

[Dave W]

This is completely different from sampling. Inserting an actual sample of someone else's original work into your work has nothing to do with alleged plagiarism.

[Pilgrim]

This is completely different from sampling. Inserting an actual sample of someone else's original work into your work has nothing to do with alleged plagiarism.

I'm not a legal scholar, but it seems to me that the two instances are being dealt with in a similar manner. In writing terms, inserting a portion of someone else's work into yours without crediting the source is the definition of plagiarism. I am probably missing some legal fine points, but in concept it seems like the same thing.