1962 EB-3

[D.M.N.]

So I've read this forum for a long time now, figure I should actually post, seeing as I actually have something to post about.

I've been a massive Jack Bruce fan since I first heard Cream, and he's always been a huge influence on my playing. I've looked for an EB-3 for years, but without much luck. I knew it probably wasn't going to be a primary player over my precision, but I wanted it for the few tricks it does do and because they always looked so cool with Bruce and Fraser and Cornick. Part of the limiting factor of tracking one down was that I knew I wanted an early period one, wide spaced knobs, original style neck joint, etc. Minor things, but I knew I probably wasn't going to be as content with a later style version. As such, looking for a '61-'64, the prices can be a little on the high side for my wallet, and I'd occasionally browse various sites seeing if there was ever one in okay condition for an okay price. In fact, not quite mint was really a better option, since I figured I'd eventually rewire the circuit to a 3-point selector switch and remove the choke. Back in...October I think it was I saw one on the GC used site that was a '62, with the original bakelite cover, and in fact the rather rare addition of a stinger (with the original serial and no break, indicating a factory stinger). It was a bit much without the need to sell things, but it was the best deal I'd seen on one (upper $2000s). It eventually sold and I instead got a Ric 4001v63 (that's another story). Fast forward to January, browsing Reverb, and I see another 1962 EB-3. This one is in the low $1000s, way more in my price range, so I look it over. Good news: original finish, original frets in good condition, mostly original hardware and electronics. Bad news: some weird attempt at what I think was a belt-attachment, a small repair on the edge of the control cavity, some replaced screws, and one ugly headstock repair. So I contacted the seller, and they didn't seem to know too much about it, but described it as best they could, said the headstock repair while not pretty, was structurally sound, the serial was still visible (sent a photo), the back of the headstock had not be refinished (more on that in a minute), and that it was in overall decent condition. I negotiated with the price, waited a bit, since they had to to ask the owner if she was willing to accept my offer, and counter offered. After a bit more negotiation I got it for about $1000. Others may think it's a bit much, but overall I'm very satisfied with it, even more so when it showed up and was actually in better condition than the seller's photos indicated. So, without further rambling, here are some photos of it:






As you can see on the back of the headstock, it too features what I am fairly certain is a factory stinger. These were a feature of the 40s and 50s archtops, and show up on occasion on the solid body guitars of the late 50s/early 60s, and evidently the best explanation is that is a way to hide what the company considered cosmetic flaws in the wood. What leads me to believe that it is factory original is that the serial is still clearly visible, the glue for the repair is on top of the black, and I can't tell any transition between a resprayed clear coat and the original neck finish.

Anyways, absolutely love this thing. It's the first vintage bass I've ever owned, and I'm very impressed. Sure, it not exactly versatile, but run through my Sunns it does exactly what I want it to do. Felix Pappalardi? Yeah. Buzzy driven Jack Bruce? Nailed it. I switched the flats that were on it to D'addario Nickel rounds, which I know some people might object to putting rounds on it, but I just haven't yet been able to bring myself to get along with flats. Love the neck. I'm used to the Fender '62 AVRI neck on my precision, which is wide but fairly thin depth wise, where as the EB-3 is a much meatier neck. Fits my hand very well. Also my first short scale bass (outside the Bass VI), and I really love how quickly I can move around and the lower string tension. I do a lot of string bends, and can easily bends these strings (coming from a Precision with Swing 66s) up to 2 steps in many positions. Mostly I've been using a combination of the Bridge and Neck, with the Bridge volume rolled off to 8.5 and the tones wide open. Good balance of honky bridge clarity and low end rumble from the neck. i do need to work on the electronics a bit, it seems that the rotary crackles and occasionally position 3 will pop and sound like position 1. Not yet decided if I will drop in a whole new harness to eliminate the choke yet, we'll see. What am surprised about are two things: 1) it seems that the neck by itself (position 4) is far quieter that the bridge pickup. If I remember correctly these pickups were somewhere in the range of 30k ohms? I know it still has the effects of the choke working on it in position 4, so might that be all there is to it, because position 1 certainly has some high output. And 2) I get feedback on the bridge pickup. I know these are humbuckers, but with the amp volume turned well up, does anyone else with one of these experience any feedback? Is it possible just going microphonic?

Anyways, long post, TL;DR: finally attained a Grail bass, love it, comments, suggestions, questions welcomed.

[Granny Gremlin]

Congratulations, that is a rare year and a rather good price despite the neck repair.  Now re yer 2 things: indeed Pos 4 is neck pickup run through a tone choke and Pos 1 is neck pickup (mostly) unmolested.  Since most of it's output is actually below the filters rolloff point, that may be why it seems quiet,  though now that I think about it, I never really noticed much vol diff between pos 1 and 4, but I always attributed that to headroom and the preamp section of my amp breathing a huge sigh of relief when switching to Pos 4 (tube input sections have a hard time with pure mud - solid state preamps tend to fare much better and may show more of a volume difference; haven't tried).  Mostly I noticed a tonal difference.  Mine is a 65 so the pickup and circuit should be the same aside from the mudbucker cover.

I can't compare to the sound/vol of the minibucker because mine isn't working (the pup is fine but some weird wiring issue that I still haven't bothered to sort out.... occurs to me just now that I never checked the switch itself; assumed it was a bad pot... hope I remember that later). So I can't speak much to your second question other than to say I did not notice this when I tested the bridge pup wired direct to jack.  It could be microphonic; some models/eras of Gibson minihumbuckers are renowned for it (Firebird; but those are a very different pup IIRC).  Could also be that the amp /EQ settings you have for other switch positions exacerbate a resonance when bridge only is engaged.

[D.M.N.]

Congratulations, that is a rare year and a rather good price despite the neck repair.  Now re yer 2 things: indeed Pos 4 is neck pickup run through a tone choke and Pos 1 is neck pickup (mostly) unmolested.  Since most of it's output is actually below the filters rolloff point, that may be why it seems quiet,  though now that I think about it, I never really noticed much vol diff between pos 1 and 4, but I always attributed that to headroom and the preamp section of my amp breathing a huge sigh of relief when switching to Pos 4 (tube input sections have a hard time with pure mus - solid state preamps tend to fare much better and may show more of a volume difference; haven't tried).  Mostly I noticed a tonal difference.  Mine is a 65 so the pickup and circuit should be the same aside from the mudbucker cover.

I can't compare to the sound/vol of the minibucker because mine isn't working (the pup is fine but some weird wiring issue that I still haven't bothered to sort out.... occurs to me just now that I never checked the switch itself; assumed it was a bad pot... hope I remember that later). So I can't speak much to your second question other than to say I did not notice this when I tested the bridge pup wired direct to jack.  It could be microphonic; some models/eras of Gibson minihumbuckers are renowned for it (Firebird; but those are a very different pup IIRC).  Could also be that the amp /EQ settings you have for other switch positions exacerbate a resonance when bridge only is engaged.

Ah, I must have been mixed up then. Did some quick further reading and it seems you're right, Pos 1 is "unadulterated" and Pos 4 is choked. However, due to the choke still being in the circuit, Pos 1 has much of its mids and high ends rolled off. So I very well might get around to taking the choke out of the circuit, as I have little use for the baritone position with its lower output and prefer to have as much mids and highs as I can get. I thought the choke worked the other way around primarily, in that it choked the highs and mids out of position 1. Thank you for helping clarify.

As for the feedback, yes, it most likely is the EQ on the amp. I kind of set and forget since I've found the sound I'm looking for, so the tone controls are Treble 10, Bass 2 and Contour (mids) 10 (usually, sometimes I drop them to 0 depending on the bass). The cranked treble is probably responsible, though I'd be interested if anyone else has ever experienced this as well. 

[Granny Gremlin]

Dimed treble knob would do it (when on bridge, and not when on neck).

The mudbucker doesn't really have any upper mids or highs. I like to joke that it puts out a near pure sine wave of fundamental. I have found that it is a perfect match for small Peavey solid state practise amps for a really cool recording tone (somebody you know has a Peavey Bandit - try it, it is an unexpectedly awesome combination) or small to medium guitar combos generally (similar success with a Peavey Bravo 12... dunno what it is about Peavey and Mudbuckers, but they just get along). Otherwise I use a 10 band EQ pedal (MXR) to cut everything in the lowest band, 35Hz or something, and give a medium width boost in the upper mids).

[nofi]

we have a strict policy of 'separation of bass and state' here.

[Granny Gremlin]

 

[D.M.N.]

Dimed treble knob would do it (when on bridge, and not when on neck).

The mudbucker doesn't really have any upper mids or highs. I like to joke that it puts out a near pure sine wave of fundamental. I have found that it is a perfect match for small Peavey solid state practise amps for a really cool recording tone (somebody you know has a Peavey Bandit - try it, it is an unexpectedly awesome combination) or small to medium guitar combos generally (similar success with a Peavey Bravo 12... dunno what it is about Peavey and Mudbuckers, but they just get along). Otherwise I use a 10 band EQ pedal (MXR) to cut everything in the lowest band, 35Hz or something, and give a medium width boost in the upper mids).

Guess it'll be something to live with then, I don't think I'll be turning down the treble any time soon. And don't worry, I have no delusions that there's a secret untapped plethora of mids and highs trapped within the mudbucker, but I have read few various threads, many here, that say the EB-0 has a bit more of an open tone, and that the same can be achieved by removing the tone choke in the EB-3. Not a huge amount, but a bit more than the dark-cloud-mud that it has stock. I like the sounds I can get from it currently, I was just thinking about possible future changes.I'll have to see if my crappy old Frontman 15 is still hiding somewhere in a closet, test it out through that too.

we have a strict policy of 'separation of bass and state' here.

I could reshoot it with my Union Jack, for surely there can be nothing that comes between Queen and bass.

[4stringer77]

Nice bass and welcome to the forum. The mini bucker shouldn't feed back and yeah the choke seriously takes a lot of juice from the neck pickup in position 4 and same with position 3. I took the choke out of the circuit in my bass for that reason but there are lots of people who like to leave everything stock. I have a hip shot 2 point on my bridge and like it but some folks think you can't get low enough action on those bridges. Jack used lighter gauge LaBella flats on his, I really like GHS short scale brite flats. Enjoy it and hope you get the feedback thing sorted out.

[amptech]

The bridge PUP should not be noisy, but it does have a low output. If you 'even out' the balace between neck/bridge and add gain/eq on the amp, well it will have some noise. Feedback can be avoided by re-potting, but then you might just have loose components within the pickup assembly. If the coil wiggles, etc..

It's fairly easy to bypass the coil, your bass will still be stock. It should not be necessary to remove the harness, just clean it.

Personally, I like a standard toggle or blend switch (I don't care much for the choke) and again - this can be done without drilling or messing up. Or you could get a CTS push/pull volume knob, and be able to put the choke in or out of cct.

And welcome:-) lovely bass!

[amptech]

I'll have to see if my crappy old Frontman 15 is still hiding somewhere in a closet, test it out through that too.

It will be fine in the closet, leave it alone

[Alanko]

Isn't there some weirdness with mixing pickup impedances, whereby the lower impedance pickup will dominate the higher impedance unit?

[amptech]

Isn't there some weirdness with mixing pickup impedances, whereby the lower impedance pickup will dominate the higher impedance unit?

There certainly are many factors involved when mixing pickups, but as for the stock EB-3 one cannot say that the lower impedance bridge actually dominates the higher impedance neck pickup. Obviously, the mudbucker is also magnetically stronger than the bridge PUP also.
Then you have the coil, putting the system electrically out of phase. Um.. was that 180 degrees out of phase because of the choke? don't remember. Didn't chromium or someone else here have a more scientific explanation on the setup of EB-3 pickups?

Anyway, as I have stated before (please no attacks from the stock pickup lovers here ) my personal favourite blending solution is
to wind a mini sidewinder to play in phase with the mud, toggle or blend setup, no choke. An equal impedance here will actually have the bridge pickup overpowering the mud some because it will not be as muddy. I have tried to overwind stock mini HB's, put in stronger magnets etc. but with no real luck.  I have to admit though, there is nothing wrong with enjoying the original quirks of the stock cct, the '61 to '65 EB's are a joy to play anyway.

[godofthunder]

   Nice score! I'd pay a grand for it!

[Highlander]

... and you'd have that head apart and fix it right, knowing you...

[TBird1958]

Looks good Dylan!