http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aHlDmIkCXM
boy is he lost in the seventies! and that's about how long its been since he's been relevant. what a dufus. :rolleyes:
I'm sure he's real concerned about being relevant. Either one agrees with another's views or they don't. I suppose if you agree, then the person is relevant - and if not...
I gotta go with Alice on this one. :toast:
Quote from: OldManC on July 16, 2013, 03:32:46 PM
I gotta go with Alice on this one. :toast:
Yeah, but I also recall when Alice said something similar about Marilyn Manson, and now they are touring together. Of course, I maintain that MM stole "Tourniquet" from Alice. So there...
Quote from: gweimer on July 16, 2013, 03:53:07 PM
Yeah, but I also recall when Alice said something similar about Marilyn Manson, and now they are touring together. Of course, I maintain that MM stole "Tourniquet" from Alice. So there...
I think AC said, "He has a woman's name and wears makeup. How original."
Alice makes his money touring, where industry hype doesn't mean squat, and he's been doing it for longer than most of the members of those other bands have been alive. He has a disappearing quality that used to be called "wisdom." The bands he's talking about will be forgotten history in a few years when the labels, media and industry publicists move on to new 'next big things.' It's the culture of pussification where if you're too "mean" or "loud" or "offensive" then you have no place in mass media. This celebration of mediocrity has become so PC and pervasive that bands like this are being called "rock," and they most certainly are NOT. That doesn't mean that being a pop folk/Americana band (Dylan anyone?), what they ACTUALLY are, is bad, nor did Vincent say it was. He was giving a not-so-subtle indictment of the promotional apparatus of the industry whose workers are so lazy/stupid that those bands are being "sold" as rock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW0YKLm8Wm0
It isn't a clear-cut thing to me. I like old school rock better than anything on earth. And, yeah, his comments were funny at times in that. It did make me laugh. On the other hand, I wouldn't go so far as to criticize a specific musical instrument like he did when he made the comments about the accordion. I've got an accordion player right now going to a lot of trouble to get me Golden Earring concert tickets. She can appreciate that kind of music as well as the kind that I suppose Alice Cooper might not approve of. She loves all kinds of music. I can appreciate that, although, like Alice Cooper, I'm probably just stuck in a rock music time warp. I'm happy with that, but don't feel like criticizing others too much who may not be on the same wavelength I'm on.
We saw Mumford And Sons at the COA Amphitheater this past June. I would not call them a rock band but they are very good at what they do and put on a super show. Sold out 2 nights in a row. (14K plus a night) Did Alice forget about this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWabM9YzRqY
I have to go with Alice on this, too. No disrespect to the artists, it's just not what I call rock 'n' roll. Same with most modern country music. Most of it is just frat boy rock with phony twangs. There are some talented artists, but almost none of it is country music to me.
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on July 16, 2013, 04:13:06 PMHe was giving a not-so-subtle indictment of the promotional apparatus of the industry whose workers are so lazy/stupid that those bands are being "sold" as rock.
Talk about an irrelevant industry!
Quote from: Hörnisse on July 16, 2013, 07:41:44 PM
... Did Alice forget about this one?
The golfing years... :rolleyes:
Quote from: westen on July 16, 2013, 04:22:43 PM
I've got an accordion player right now going to a lot of trouble to get me Golden Earring concert tickets.
What? You might get to go see Golden Earring? I hate you! :mrgreen:
Quote from: Denis on July 17, 2013, 05:43:03 PM
What? You might get to go see Golden Earring? I hate you! :mrgreen:
It isn't 100% certain, but I have a very good chance.
It isn't certain Denis will 100% hate you...
I still have my 1974 Golden Earring/Lynyrd Skynyrd tour shirt... ;D
Quote from: CAR-54 on July 17, 2013, 11:52:39 PM
It isn't certain Denis will 100% hate you...
I still have my 1974 Golden Earring/Lynyrd Skynyrd tour shirt... ;D
If I do go, I'm sure I'll have a lot to say about what it was like if Denis or anyone else is interested.
I've heard vintage rock concert shirts are considered more desirable than ever now. That 74 shirt should be just the thing.
Vincent Furnier, I want to make love with you and have your (billion dollar) babies!!! :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
How right the ole Republican is.
Alice has never been the greatest singer (though he does credible John Lennon impersonations), but he's no musical idiot and does not embarrass himself with the limits of his voice. From Pretties for You to Killer to Welcome to my Nightmare to Dada to Poison (experimental, glam, hard, new wave, AOR and unfortunately also mindless heavy metal rock) he has covered a musical range in his career the Loonytears and Mum's Ford San never will. And as for ecological awareness, you can't beat Cold Ethyl for bringing the concept of sustainable recycling to America's youth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hk0sGep1bc
If it's too loud, you're too cold.
Quote from: westen on July 17, 2013, 06:21:54 PM
It isn't 100% certain, but I have a very good chance.
Well, since I can't go I sure hope you get to but if you do, you'll need to report!
Quote from: CAR-54 on July 17, 2013, 11:52:39 PM
It isn't certain Denis will 100% hate you...
I still have my 1974 Golden Earring/Lynyrd Skynyrd tour shirt... ;D
Sweet! Pic!
Denis, the only thing that would stop me from going is if it gets sold out. There are several other bands there besides Golden Earring. So, I have no idea about the availability of tickets. If I do go, I'm sure my description will be a detailed one from the perspective of a loyal fan. I doubt if there would be much of anything that might escape my eyes and ears.
Quote from: uwe on July 18, 2013, 12:35:06 PM
Alice has never been the greatest singer (though he does credible John Lennon impersonations), but he's no musical idiot and does not embarrass himself with the limits of his voice. From Pretties for You to Killer to Welcome to my Nightmare to Dada to Poison (experimental, glam, hard, new wave, AOR and unfortunately also mindless heavy metal rock) he has covered a musical range in his career the Loonytears and Mum's Ford San never will.
"Poison" is my favorite Alice Cooper song. It's the quintessential mixture of sex, domination, and rock with more intelligence than you give it credit for. Never has obsession been so masculine. Where Sting whined plaintively through "Every Breath You Take," Alice said, 'Baby, you're one hell of a lay, but I know trouble when I see it.'
Quote from: Denis on July 18, 2013, 01:33:00 PM... Sweet! Pic!
... to follow, post bathroom completion... it's what I call well worn... a holey relic...? ;D
Michael... if you were this side of the Pond I'd loan it to you for the gig... ;)
There are a number of old shirts I'm probably going to try and off-load on ebay (not this one) but there is a minty pale (baby) blue long sleeve Welcome To My Nightmare tour shirt I'll be putting up for trade here prior... it's a small, unfortunately (bought for sis who wore it once and folded it away - was into the Bay City Rollers at the time :o - not me... her... ;D), but near perfect... there is one on ebay at present... silly money but the seller has sold more than one of them over the last few years...
Alice for me was from Love it through to Welcome and then the occasional dip in... saw the Welcome tour (still jealous you saw Billions tour, Mark) Special Forces tour, Nightmare Returns tour, but not seen since then... Agree with PBG over Poison though... excellent and highly catchy number...
With "mindless heavy metal rock" I wasn't alluding to "Poison" (the Desmond Child-penned song). "Poison" isn't mindless (the chord changes, which don't follow traditional harmony rules in the middle of the verse, but shift the whole thing by two half-steps, are quite clever) and not heavy metal, it's AOR with a goth tinge. I like it if Alice does AOR because he is essentially a pop singer, not a metal or even heavy rock belter (he'd die a death singing Zep, Sabbath or Deep Purple songs, he's not a "my voice is an instrument"-type singer). I was alluding to his Kane Roberts/Rambo phase that preceded his Kip Winger/Desmond Child/Poison-phase, "Feed my Frankenstein" and stuff like that. I found that his most mindless phase of all.
If "Poison" is heavy metal, then Nightranger is death metal.
Quote from: uwe on July 19, 2013, 05:08:13 AM
With "mindless heavy metal rock" I wasn't alluding to "Poison" (the Desmond Child-penned song). "Poison" isn't mindless (the chord changes, which don't follow traditional harmony rules in the middle of the verse, but shift the whole thing by two half-steps, are quite clever) and not heavy metal, it's AOR with a goth tinge. I like it if Alice does AOR because he is essentially a pop singer, not a metal or even heavy rock belter (he'd die a death singing Zep, Sabbath or Deep Purple songs, he's not a "my voice is an instrument"-type singer). I was alluding to his Kane Roberts/Rambo phase that preceded his Kip Winger/Desmond Child/Poison-phase, "Feed my Frankenstein" and stuff like that. I found that his most mindless phase of all.
If "Poison" is heavy metal, then Nightranger is death metal.
I absolutely agree with you on "Poison". It was an instant classic, and one of my favorite Alice Cooper songs, and I'm one of those who thinks the original band was the best. I honestly never got into much of his early "solo" stuff, despite having Wagner/Hunter onboard. He was one of the best live shows I ever saw, though, and that was with Davey Johnstone.
I do, however, enjoy this song from the Kane Roberts era. Try to ignore the video... :sad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XximKJNcgFY
Always the showman, throughout all the eras, even the Kane Roberts shows...
Quote from: gweimer on July 19, 2013, 06:20:41 AM
He was one of the best live shows I ever saw, though, and that was with Davey Johnstone.
Wasn't Dee Murray in the band at the same time as Johnstone? I've heard a live recording where they were both in the band.
From what I recall they worked with AC around the time of From The Inside... the album was musically Cooper/Wagner and lyrics were Cooper/Taupin ... that was '78 or so ... I don't know how much they gigged it though ...
Now, I had (have? in the loft?) the video of The Strange Case Of Alice Cooper... Hunter and Johnston are the guitarists on the video but I had to look up and it was the WTMN drummer and bassist team of Whitey Glan and Prakash John for that one ...
QuoteHunter and Johnston are the guitarists on the video but I had to look up and it was the WTMN drummer and bassist team of Whitey Glan and Prakash John for that one ...
most of the rock and roll animal band right there...
One more era of Alice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4FetxxflGY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQY_ODOcFGA
Cool stuff, Mark! It's always interesting to see how far back famous musicians really go. The early years of Jimmy Page and Ronnie James Dio are up on YouTube, and very different from what we know of them now.
As far as Alice Cooper, this is a song that made me really listen to Dennis Dunaway. He was a big influence on my playing. There's a surprising number of shots of Dennis on the video, over the guitarists. :thumbsup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4f1FkPzvT4
Quote from: clankenstein on July 20, 2013, 01:54:45 AM
most of the rock and roll animal band right there...
That was the Nightmare tour band, indeed... with Josef Chirowski (ex Crowbar) on keys ...
I agree with Alice. What's now considered Rock N' Roll just doesn't hold up to the likes of "Muscle of Love" and "Public Animal #9". However, I might be a little bias. I'm a huge Alice Cooper fan. Not so much the 80's era, but the 70's stuff is gold.
Mumford & Sons are great at what they do. It's just not Rock N' Roll.
It's a bit of a tongue in cheek cheap shot by Alice really, because I don't believe that Mumford & Sons even profess to be a rock band. They are probably no less a rock band than America were in their time, but considerably less than Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young in their prime, who thanks to Stills and Nash could rock quite a bit among all their folk, country and psychedelic Westcoast influences. Speaking of: I saw Neil Young and Crazy Horse last week - he had one of his "hardly any ballads or acoustic songs"-nights and it was an (entertaining) orgy of feedback and primal as well as endless guitar solos, but it ticked all the "Is it rock?"-boxes for sure.
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on July 19, 2013, 12:53:02 AM
"Poison" is my favorite Alice Cooper song. It's the quintessential mixture of sex, domination, and rock with more intelligence than you give it credit for. Never has obsession been so masculine. Where Sting whined plaintively through "Every Breath You Take," Alice said, 'Baby, you're one hell of a lay, but I know trouble when I see it.'
When Poison was out as a single I was so into it. I bought Trash on cassette based on loving the Poison video and listened the shit out of it (litterally, the thing won't play anymore). .... but it's not his most intellectual endeavour (and as intelligent as he seems to be from interviews etc, he never really tried to put too much of that into his music.... at least in the latter half of his career). A lot of wincey lyrical moments on that LP (to give an idea - one song was co-written with Jon Bon Jovi). Took me a few years to notice that, I was something like 11 when it came out and I was blinded by the attitude/leather. If you listen to the whole record it actually comes off whinier than Sting (almost every track is about some woman that's doing him wrong or general relationship neediness ... rather unmetal actually... maybe, in retrospect, that's the joke). ... and of course there's the requisite thinly-veiled penis metaphor song capping off the track listing.
Did the same thing with BDB when it came out... always threw me when I got the vinyl as the track listing is different...
Quote from: Granny Gremlin on July 31, 2013, 12:37:50 PM
When Poison was out as a single I was so into it. I bought Trash on cassette based on loving the Poison video and listened the shit out of it (litterally, the thing won't play anymore). .... but it's not his most intellectual endeavour (and as intelligent as he seems to be from interviews etc, he never really tried to put too much of that into his music.... at least in the latter half of his career). A lot of wincey lyrical moments on that LP (to give an idea - one song was co-written with Jon Bon Jovi). Took me a few years to notice that, I was something like 11 when it came out and I was blinded by the attitude/leather. If you listen to the whole record it actually comes off whinier than Sting (almost every track is about some woman that's doing him wrong or general relationship neediness ... rather unmetal actually... maybe, in retrospect, that's the joke). ... and of course there's the requisite thinly-veiled penis metaphor song capping off the track listing.
Vincent has always been a hopeless romantic ... Only Women Bleed! He might have had fantasies about killing his women off and putting them in refrigerators (keeps them fresh), but he all loved them dearly.
There's three metal/heavy rock themes throughout history:
1. demons & wizards/sword & scorcery (= escapism)
2. cars and paaaaartying out (= nihilism)
3. wimmin and how they always break your heart (= angst and self-pity).
That covers the main emotional regions of any adolescent pretty much. And after all: IT IS music fpr adolescents. Some of them - like me - just never grow out of it!
Quote from: uwe on August 01, 2013, 07:04:09 AM
Vincent has always been a hopeless romantic ... Only Women Bleed! He might have had fantasies about killing his women off and putting them in refrigerators (keeps them fresh), but he all loved them dearly.
I think that's part of his appeal. He mixes romance and the macabre.
Most women dig Alice Cooper - they think he's cute somehow. He has that loner/outcast/underdog appeal and a wry humor schooled by being the kid that was always picked on. I can chase Edith out of the house with Rob Halford ("why is he always pressing his voice so much?") and David Coverdale ("those lyrics, does he ever sing about anything else?!"), but she always likes it when I put on Alice, even the weird stuff. She happily sings along to Cold Ethyl and Department of Youth.
Quote from: uwe on August 01, 2013, 07:04:09 AM
... Some of them - like me - just never grow out of it!
[Peter Pan] Since when did any of us grow up, mentally...
Now... on... 'til dawn comes...! [/Peter Pan]
(where did I leave my sanatogen...? I need a nap...)
Quote from: uwe on August 01, 2013, 07:04:09 AM
There's three metal/heavy rock themes throughout history:
1. demons & wizards/sword & scorcery (= escapism)
2. cars and paaaaartying out (= nihilism)
3. wimmin and how they always break your heart (= angst and self-pity).
That covers the main emotional regions of any adolescent pretty much. And after all: IT IS music fpr adolescents.
You forgot the biggest: aggression. Moreso than any other theme, anger at an array of things not related to women is the most overriding arc. Very few (Anselmo-era) Pantera, (good) Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax etc songs address any of the three you listed. From alienation to existentialism, there's plenty to be pissed about and lots of music about it.
RE: Alice Cooper's "Trash": Outside of "Poison" the title covers the rest of the album aptly. The way Uwe just mentioned Poison and and mindless heavy metal together, it sounded like that's what he meant in regards to the song.
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on August 03, 2013, 07:50:19 AM
You forgot the biggest: aggression. Moreso than any other theme, anger at an array of things not related to women is the most overriding arc. Very few (Anselmo-era) Pantera, (good) Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax etc songs address any of the three you listed. From alienation to existentialism, there's plenty to be pissed about and lots of music about it.
RE: Alice Cooper's "Trash": Outside of "Poison" the title covers the rest of the album aptly. The way Uwe just mentioned Poison and and mindless heavy metal together, it sounded like that's what he meant in regards to the song.
Maybe it's my age, and maybe I'm becoming a curmudgeon, but I see a lot of newer metal, especially that being perpetuated by what are now middle-aged businessmen, morphing into a parasitic market strategy. When I was younger, "Paranoid" from Black Sabbath was a song that had a lot of impact on me. They were my generation, speaking to my time. Now, I see bands trolling the gravy train and keeping the cash coming in. And, again, maybe it's just me, but the lyrics are no longer seeking answers and looking for hope, but basically looking downward and giving up. Teen-age angst, depression and despair are a cash cow for a lot of bands that might not have any other viable means of income. I see metal becoming very exploitive.
Blame it on Cobain. To expand further would require a long dissertation of the "woe is me" / entitlement mentality.
Quote from: lowend1 on August 03, 2013, 09:05:59 AM
Blame it on Cobain. To expand further would require a long dissertation of the "woe is me" / entitlement mentality.
I can't argue that. The paramount anti-hero. Ironic that in the wake of his demise, rose one of the most popular bands in the past 20 years.
Quote from: gweimer on August 03, 2013, 08:37:46 AM
Maybe it's my age, and maybe I'm becoming a curmudgeon, but I see a lot of newer metal, especially that being perpetuated by what are now middle-aged businessmen, morphing into a parasitic market strategy.
Uh, you think???
And rap stars have a certain set of duds to wear - and a certain number of scantily clad women dancing behind them.
If a rap guy ever wears his ball cap with the brim forward, he'll get drummed out of the genre.
And all the ball caps have to have flat brims.
And female pop stars do their best madonna/Beyonce/Katy Perry costume impressions.
And the guys in country HAVE to wear hats with the brim mashed down in front and back.
And for that matter, blues guys often wear skinny-brim hats.
Seems like every genre has its exploitation/uniform standards.
After discovering him at the Grammy awards, I do enjoy Bruno Mars. He may wear the hat, but he wears one all the time, and he crosses musical boundaries. And he has actual talent, and can sing!
I never could stand Nirvana. But I'd gladly take that over 90% of the crap out there now calling itself music. In fact, I really like Paul and the Nirvana remnant--Sirvana.
Quote from: Pilgrim on August 03, 2013, 09:28:42 AM
Uh, you think???
And rap stars have a certain set of duds to wear - and a certain number of scantily clad women dancing behind them.
If a rap guy ever wears his ball cap with the brim forward, he'll get drummed out of the genre.
And all the ball caps have to have flat brims.
And female pop stars do their best madonna/Beyonce/Katy Perry costume impressions.
And the guys in country HAVE to wear hats with the brim mashed down in front and back.
And for that matter, blues guys often wear skinny-brim hats.
Seems like every genre has its exploitation/uniform standards.
After discovering him at the Grammy awards, I do enjoy Bruno Mars. He may wear the hat, but he wears one all the time, and he crosses musical boundaries. And he has actual talent, and can sing!
You forgot the guys in the smelly knit skull caps. And all the hip gentile women wearing
schmattas that seem to populate the local Whole Foods.
Quote from: Pilgrim on August 03, 2013, 09:28:42 AM
Uh, you think???
And rap stars have a certain set of duds to wear - and a certain number of scantily clad women dancing behind them.
If a rap guy ever wears his ball cap with the brim forward, he'll get drummed out of the genre.
And all the ball caps have to have flat brims.
And female pop stars do their best madonna/Beyonce/Katy Perry costume impressions.
And the guys in country HAVE to wear hats with the brim mashed down in front and back.
And for that matter, blues guys often wear skinny-brim hats.
Seems like every genre has its exploitation/uniform standards.
After discovering him at the Grammy awards, I do enjoy Bruno Mars. He may wear the hat, but he wears one all the time, and he crosses musical boundaries. And he has actual talent, and can sing!
Bruno Mars!? His talent is that he's a Michael Jackson impersonator! If he didn't look and move like a Hawaiian version of 1980s era Jackson, he'd be nowhere.
And don't get me started about pretty boys in country singing frat-boy pop with a fake twang and contrived lyrics about dirt roads and trucks.
Quote from: lowend1 on August 03, 2013, 03:05:27 PM
You forgot the guys in the smelly knit skull caps. And all the hip gentile women wearing schmattas that seem to populate the local Whole Foods.
You mean these guys?
(http://i1168.photobucket.com/albums/r496/fireftr18/bob-and-doug-mckenzie-i6_zps7ce43b12.jpg)
Quote from: gweimer on August 03, 2013, 08:37:46 AMMaybe it's my age, and maybe I'm becoming a curmudgeon, but I see a lot of newer metal, especially that being perpetuated by what are now middle-aged businessmen, morphing into a parasitic market strategy.
That's what happens when something that thrived commercially outside of the mainstream for many years was co-opted BY the very people that drove it underground to start with. The classic metal bands of the 80's are sad self-parodies in many ways, and all but too happy to play pitchmen to their equally middle-aged fans caught in a nostaligia time warp of what life was like before they began enjoying being Madison Avenue-approved neutered sellouts. I had some hope for Anthrax with John Bush and Rob Caggiano, but Scott Ian saw too many dollar signs riding the VH-1 gravy train. Slayer died with Jeff Hanneman, though it had been a zombie for almost two decades already. Megadeth is just irrelevant to reality since Dave Mustaine decided to do a Dennis Miller. And as for Metallica, the legend ended with a tour bus wreck in 1986. I was present for the early forms of death, black metal and grindcore; what's out there now is just a fashion show. IMO, it's a reflection of a lazy society more interested in whining and living in the past than challenging the system anew. The pissed off teenagers of the 80's find demanding change from their world too much of an inconvenience. There are REAL bands making real music out there now with equally real fans, but they're the underground for making more "mainstream" music.
QuoteNow, I see bands trolling the gravy train and keeping the cash coming in.
Yup.
QuoteAnd, again, maybe it's just me, but the lyrics are no longer seeking answers and looking for hope, but basically looking downward and giving up. Teen-age angst, depression and despair are a cash cow for a lot of bands that might not have any other viable means of income. I see metal becoming very exploitive.
See your above statement. It's much easier to re-hash old themes than grow and work for actual change in the world, musically and otherwise.
Quote from: Dave W on August 03, 2013, 07:55:09 PMAnd don't get me started about pretty boys in country singing frat-boy pop with a fake twang and contrived lyrics about dirt roads and trucks.
The upside is that the more Nashville has to mine its songwriting past to market third-teir model wannabe's, the more that some of the good of that past creeps through. Blake Shelton and Miranda Lambert are George and Tammy on even MORE drugs. That's not to say that I'm a huge fan, but they amuse me.
I hate the Nashville models that hang a 6 string banjo (banjitar) around their neck and pantomime like they're playing it. The 5 string banjo has a long, unique, perhaps bizarre tradition...none of them are capable of understanding or playing it.
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on August 04, 2013, 01:37:35 AM
The upside is that the more Nashville has to mine its songwriting past to market third-teir model wannabe's, the more that some of the good of that past creeps through. Blake Shelton and Miranda Lambert are George and Tammy on even MORE drugs. That's not to say that I'm a huge fan, but they amuse me.
True about the past creeping through. Still, it's a pretty bad scene when you realize that Blake and Miranda aren't so bad compared to the likes of Luke Bryan, Jason Aldean or Brantley Gilbert. As Pinkard & Bowden once sang. I'd rather hear a fat girl fart than a pretty boy sing. :)
I keep waiting on Jason Aldean to come out. His music is mediocre soft-pop with Nashville production and proof that marketing can take a doughy, balding closet case with a three note vocal range and make him a "sex symbol."