The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Pilgrim on May 05, 2009, 01:22:41 PM
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So now that I have my EPI EB-3, I find that the short scale and lighter weight of the EB-0 I sold are attractive in retrospect.
Has anyone taken one of the EPI EB-0 models and added a bridge pickup to it? Looks like there's room for the pickup and the electronics......
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Dennis Dunaway's Gibson started out as an EB-O.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/iamthebassman/gibsonDD3.jpg)
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So have I (on a seventies EB-0, implanting an RD Standard stacked humbucker). It is the most common mod on EB-0s, no reason why it should not work. My luthier just did it for someone with an Epi EB-0 (and complained how hard the multilayer whatever wood of the Epi was to route! ;D )
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/uwehornung/DCP_0019.jpg)
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Dennis Dunaway's Gibson started out as an EB-O.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/iamthebassman/gibsonDD3.jpg)
I was going to comment that there's a bit of visual dissonance with the P pickup, but that whole BASS is visually dissonant - by design!
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Split coils don't even look good on a P IMHO. I prefer either the original singlecoil or the Fender-mudbucker there. Guitarists would have never tolerated such an ugly (if sensible and even clever) design, but who cares about bassists of all people? The split coil is Fender's eternal esthetic disservice to the bass playing world, jawohl!
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I find split coils aesthetically hideous. More than anything, they would fit the motif of what you might expect to find in one of those science fiction movies where aliens are examining humans in a lab.
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I find split coils aesthetically hideous. More than anything, they would fit the motif of what you might expect to find in one of those science fiction movies where aliens are examining humans in a lab.
The RIO GRANDE PITBULL is supposed to be P like under its cover. I used one on my Gibson Slothead EB-0 project. It sounds great. It really growls and nails that Billy Sheehan tone- you also get split coil mode out of it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Fenderbird/MY%20BASSES/chair.jpg)
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Split coils don't even look good on a P IMHO. I prefer either the original singlecoil or the Fender-mudbucker there. Guitarists would have never tolerated such an ugly (if sensible and even clever) design..
You mean like on the Fender Electric XII?
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I was going to comment that there's a bit of visual dissonance with the P pickup, but that whole BASS is visually dissonant - by design!
As was the band!
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Dennis Dunaway's Gibson started out as an EB-O.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/iamthebassman/gibsonDD3.jpg)
Ah, the "Frog Bass" in all its glory!
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The apparent ease of this conversion is tempting.
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Not sure that plywood Epiphones count but here's mine.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/Freuds_cat/Epiphone%20EB-X/RIMG0331.jpg)
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The RIO GRANDE PITBULL is supposed to be P like under its cover. I used one on my Gibson Slothead EB-0 project. It sounds great. It really growls and nails that Billy Sheehan tone- you also get split coil mode out of it.
I thought the Pitbull was supposed to be like two single coil P coils under the cover. Somebody (Daniel?) checked out the pole locations with magnetic filings and IIRC that's what it looked like.
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(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/tonypbass/pitbullpolepeices.jpg) a pit bull with the cover off if that helps.from memory i think they say its like 2 1951 telecaster bass pickups in there.
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Hey, guys. My first post here. I've been checking the discussions around here and I'm enjoy quite a lot. This is a very relax and amusing forum, people seem to have a lot of fun.
Anyways, I'm a builder from Brazil and since this thread started with a SG bass and shifted to the PB pickups, I think I have something to share with you all.
From what I read so far, people around here are not to keen on the PB pickup, so I hope nobody gets offended, but here's one of my builds:
(http://osbguitars.110mb.com/SG_Bass/g_foto_09.jpg)
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I thought the Pitbull was supposed to be like two single coil P coils under the cover. Somebody (Daniel?) checked out the pole locations with magnetic filings and IIRC that's what it looked like.
Correct. I used a tiny screwdriver to locate the magnetic field and it showed that there are poles hidden behind that cover, not blades. I also remember back in the DP days someone, can't remember who, actually had met one of the Rio Grande guys who said that they used two of their single coil P-pickups and potted them inside the cover.
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Hey, guys. My first post here. I've been checking the discussions around here and I'm enjoy quite a lot. This is a very relax and amusing forum, people seem to have a lot of fun.
Anyways, I'm a builder from Brazil and since this thread started with a SG bass and shifted to the PB pickups, I think I have something to share with you all.
From what I read so far, people around here are not to keen on the PB pickup, so I hope nobody gets offended, but here's one of my builds:
(http://osbguitars.110mb.com/SG_Bass/g_foto_09.jpg)
Hi Daniel, welcome. Unfortunately, I can't see your pic (can others?). There is nothing wrong with using a split coil if you like the look - our criticism of splitcoils is purely on the esthetic side, they can sound great on basses and have established the Fender sound as a benchmark, nobody is doubting that.
You're our first member from Brazil I think. Which city?
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That's the picture of our new brazilian friend. Welcome!
http://osbguitars.110mb.com/SG_Bass/g_foto_09.jpg
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Still nothing, all I get is:
"403 Error Code"
and
"You're seeing this page because account contains no index file. (EG: index.htm)"
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I have nothing against split P pickups unless they sit on a Gibson (yes, it seems wrong even on a Q90).
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Sorry, guys. Apparently my host doesn't let me post links from outside sources. You would have to copy and paste the link to the browser's adress bar. Is there any other way to post pics?
Well, I personally like the look of the P pickup. Although from a builder's point of view, there's a bit more work involved when routing for a P pickup cavity than for a regular retangular cavity, obviously.
BTW, Uwe, I'm from Sao Paulo.
Edit: Just found out that I can attach things here, let's see if it works... Is that ok?
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Uwe, I can see the pic in his first post.
I don't know why it's not working for some of you, but as Daniel said, you can copy and paste the URL.
Daniel, welcome aboard, looks like a nicely done bass. Is that a Hipshot bridge?
If some people can't see your images, I suggest getting a free Photobucket account, then you can hotlink directly using the IMG url. You can also upload small pics directly from your hard drive by attaching them to your post, I see you've discovered that.
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Thanks, Dave. I just signed up on photobucket, quite easy and fast actually.
That's not a Hipshot bridge. It's probably korean made, dirty cheap, base and saddles are made of aluminum. And there are no intonation screws, saddles are locked in place by allen screws, one on each side of the base. Decided to use that bridge because of it's 18mm string-to-string spacing. Actually, that was the only bridge I found with such a narrow spacing, since 19mm and 20mm are more usual.
And to test my new photobucket acount, let's see if I can post a picture of the bridge:
(http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww186/daniel_japeta/det_09.jpg)
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Like Uwe I couldn't see the first pic and link, but the last two are clearly visible!
Dennis: Welcome aboard! Nice bass! Personally I would have placed the pick up a bit more to the center of the body.
I don't dislike split P pick ups. I think they're instant recognizable and well sounding.
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Daniel (of Brazil), you are heaven-sent! Black hardware!!!! No longer am I alone here in my quest ... You must know that 99 % of our members here are card- and burning cross-carrying Knights of the KKK
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Ku_Klux_Klan_Virgina_1922_Parade.jpg)
- the Ku Klux Khrome! :mrgreen: ;D ;)
With me the grand (and villified) exception.
Actually, that split coil snuggling up to the neck looks much better than in a bridge position where most splitcoils on EBs end up. Did a customer order this or did you build it for yourself?
I like that bridge - the concept is similar to Hipshot and ABM bridges whose intonation position is not held by being screwed from behind - this will spur some double entendre comments I'm sure :rolleyes: - but by allen screws in the saddles themselves that push against bridge saddle canals. ("Screwed from behind" and "canal" in one sentence - some people will feast on this ...)
Uwe
PS: Sao Paulo? Oh, that small city ... :) My (work-induced) travels have so far only led me to Rio twice.
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Don't mind Uwe, nice bass & welcome Sao.
(Uwe really knows how to roll out the welcome wagon!)
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Hello, Daniel, I used to have some friends from Sao Paulo. Muito prazer em conhece-lo.
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Niiiiiice...a new title:
"The Grand and Vilified Exception".
:-\
I better pull out that EB-3 and play it a while to remind myself why I have it. Otherwise I'll be looking for an EB-0 and dusting off my router.
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Uwe, of course a lot of Germans ended up in South-America, like 64 years ago. We all know that. Do you handle the financial cases of those ODESSA-Germans?
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Is there any truth in the rumour that Cheap Trick originally titled a song "The Chrome Police"...?
Or how about...
"I 'eard there was trouble at t' LBO, boot ah didn't expect the Chrome Inquistion...!"
WHOOOOOOOSH.....!
"Nob-buddy ex-pekts the Krome Inkwishishun...! our chief weppons are krome, krome, and more krome..."
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With me the grand (and villified) exception sh*t-stirrer.
Fixed it for you. ;D
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That bass was one of my personal projects. I wanted to show you guys because I see that people around here are quite open-minded about this kind of oddball projects.
Even before deciding what exactally I wanted to build, I know I wanted to build something white. That was just my mood at the time. When I settled for the SG shape and the Fender type pickups, black hardware just seemed "right". I do all of my planning using CorelDrawn so I can really draw and visualize the final product, and with chrome hardware it just seemed to be missing something.
I like the overall look, a bit like that Tuxedo Rickenbacker I guess.
BTW, I don't know if anybody noticed, but that's a 34 inch scale neck-through-body.
And Uwe, you're very lucky because the majority of work-induced trips to Brazil usually ends up here in Sao Paulo, being this big metropolis and center of all business related matters. Rio is much more turist friendly, as people there are used to deal with turist (from abroad or not) all year long.
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Daniel,
Cool! I thought it was a modded bass, but you made it from scratch! Great! I love neck through basses!
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Well, I did once spend an hour on the runway of Sao Paulo airport, does that count? Rio was gorgeous though, just the way it is situated among those gently sloping hills already makes it a spectacle.
An SG bass in long scale with neck-thru construction? :o You should immediately apply with Gibson, Daniel!!!
Uwe
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my 61 EB 0 , which i had a rear Delano humbucker installed. Visually it fits right in with the front bakelite covered humbucker.
It also has a split coil switch added to enable use of single coil mode, which i find really useful for adding more punch and definition to the sound .
this pickup sounds fantastic on its own , but when used in combination with front mudbucker , sounds FANTASTIC.
Bass is wired with just individual volume controls for each pickup , no tone controls , i find i can get by with just tweaking the amp.
I have just purchased a 61 EB3 , and i think i can say that i prefer the sound of my modded EB 0.
oscar
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e57/hamish/S6002029.jpg)
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I never added a pickup to an EBO, but my second bass (almost 40 years ago) was a custom EBO with the pickup relocated toward the bridge, right about where the added pickup is on the red EBO above.
I also had a similar Epi single pickup bass at the same time , that remained stock , with the pickup way toward the neck. In a side by side comparison, I much prefered the custom Gibson sound. It had an outstanding growl to it. It was a great Jack Bruce type of sound, which I was very into at the time.
It still delivered plenty of good lows but not quite as much as the Epi. The Epi or stock EBO was a little too low and muddy for me anyway.
After playing my custom EBO, I always felt the stock EBO should have had the pickup moved back at least a little. Strictly a matter of taste, but that's my 2 cents ;D
Rick
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My favorite EB project bass (NOT MINE)
RIP
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Fenderbird/1972bass.jpg)
A viking version
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Fenderbird/afterface-small.jpg)
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Viking? Looks more like Chef from South Park :D
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Pilgrim, could you tell more about the differences comparing the Epi's? Sound and playability wise. And how about the neck dive issue comparing both?
On my built, the P pickup wasn't that muddy, probably because it's not really like a humbucker as the magnetic field for each pair of strings are really narrow like singles, but it definetely lacks the growl and deepness of the J pickup closer to bridge. Although both pickups in combination had quite a huge tone, with a little bit of that Billy Sheehan tone.
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That bass was one of my personal projects. I wanted to show you guys because I see that people around here are quite open-minded about this kind of oddball projects.
Even before deciding what exactally I wanted to build, I know I wanted to build something white. That was just my mood at the time. When I settled for the SG shape and the Fender type pickups, black hardware just seemed "right". I do all of my planning using CorelDrawn so I can really draw and visualize the final product, and with chrome hardware it just seemed to be missing something.
I like the overall look, a bit like that Tuxedo Rickenbacker I guess.
BTW, I don't know if anybody noticed, but that's a 34 inch scale neck-through-body.
I do like its tuxedo look.
To me, the SG style would seem to be a natural choice for a neck-through. Not that there's anything wrong with a properly done set neck.
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Pilgrim, could you tell more about the differences comparing the Epi's? Sound and playability wise. And how about the neck dive issue comparing both?
I think I need to admit that my ear isn't especially discerning about sound differences. I can't say that I noticed a lot of difference between the Epi EB-0 and the EB-3 I have now. I liked the sound from both even with the original roundwounds on them, and both of them had nice action. The EB-3 I have now has perhaps the best action of any bass I own.
Playability is where I perceive a difference. The EB-0 wins that battle.
I've concluded that the EB-3 just isn't that comfortable for me. I don't recall the EB-0 being a neck-diver at all, but the EB-3 definitely is somewhat neck-heavy. It also seems to me like based on the SG-body shape and geometry, the 34" neck feels like it actually extends a bit farther to my left than the same scale length neck on a Jazz or Precision. (Anyone else have an observation about that?) As a result, it's just not as comfortable to play. I feel like I'm reaching farther out to hit the bottom frets - where I spend most of my time.
Last night I put on my EB-3 for a while, then changed to my 2000 MIM Jazz. They're only 2 ounces different in weight (8 lbs 15 oz for the EB-3, 9 lbs 1 oz for the J) but although when lifting the Jazz, it feels just as heavy as the Epi, when I put the strap on my shoulder, the Jazz "felt" lighter and more comfortable. I suspect it's mostly due to balance, as it's obviously not due to weight. (FYI, my '63 P weighs 8 pounds 3 oz, so it's a good bit lighter...thank heavens.)
That's the story here. I have decided to sell the EB-3, but instead of chasing an EB-0, I think I'll work on the neck of the Lyle SG-style bass I recently acquired. If I get the neck set up correctly, it should fill the gap in a short scale, two-pickup bass.
If anyone's looking for an Epi EB-3, feel free to get in touch. I'll get pix this weekend. I don't recall what I paid for it, but it was a good deal and I'll check my records and pass that along.
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As regards ergonomics, the battle of an SG shape bass, a longscale one to boot, against a Jazz Bass of all basses is unwinnable!!! I still rate the Jazz Bass as one of the most ergonomic bass designs ever.
And the Epi EB-3(L)'s especially are heavy nose-diving chunkers. You really have to love their look to get around that.
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Viking? Looks more like Chef from South Park :D
"Oh, chillun, you mustn't paint them silly faces on the Gibson bass!"
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Wow, great build!
Even with black hardware ;)
Is the neck set at an angle or assembled flat, in reference, to the body?
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I've concluded that the EB-3 just isn't that comfortable for me. I don't recall the EB-0 being a neck-diver at all, but the EB-3 definitely is somewhat neck-heavy. It also seems to me like based on the SG-body shape and geometry, the 34" neck feels like it actually extends a bit farther to my left than the same scale length neck on a Jazz or Precision. (Anyone else have an observation about that?) As a result, it's just not as comfortable to play. I feel like I'm reaching farther out to hit the bottom frets - where I spend most of my time.
You're right about that. The SG's smaller body makes it naturally hang up on a strap farther to the left than a JazzBass. Not only that, because of it's shape, even when playing it seated on your thigh the SG sits with the neck way out to the left comparing to the Jazz. That's because the "waist" area of the body is closer to the bridge on the SG. As for the Jazz, not only the waist is more or less center on the body, is also off-set, so the treble side sits on your right thigh and the bass side comfortably "hugs" you chest bone.
Mr. Fender knew what he was doing.
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Wow, great build!
Even with black hardware ;)
Is the neck set at an angle or assembled flat, in reference, to the body?
Thanks, that was a fun project.
So I guess Uwe wasn't joking about the KKK, huh?! It would've been chrome hardware if I had decided for two chrome Humbuckers instead. But then, it would've been just another Gibson copy.
The neck is flat, paralel to the body. I wanted to make it angled but I was using a neck blank that I first intended to use for a guitar, so it wasn't tall enough to do that. So I had to raise the plane of the neck to get the right spacing to level the fretboard to the bridge, so there's quite a good space between the string and the body. Some players don't like that though. Here's pic that shows what I'm saying.
(http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww186/daniel_japeta/det_06.jpg)
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Dennis Dunaway's Gibson started out as an EB-O.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/iamthebassman/gibsonDD3.jpg)
Where did you get that picture of Dennis Dunaways bass? That isn't the one on the first album is it, Love it To Death? I have it but don't feel like digging it out, i seem to remember it being a different color.
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Same exotic abused beastie... :mrgreen:
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I added one to my EB4L. Piece of cake. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/100_1867.jpg)
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Sorry, guys. Apparently my host doesn't let me post links from outside sources. You would have to copy and paste the link to the browser's adress bar. Is there any other way to post pics?
Well, I personally like the look of the P pickup. Although from a builder's point of view, there's a bit more work involved when routing for a P pickup cavity than for a regular retangular cavity, obviously.
BTW, Uwe, I'm from Sao Paulo.
Edit: Just found out that I can attach things here, let's see if it works... Is that ok?
Daniel, beautiful bass ! Even with the black hardware ;)
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Thanks, that was a fun project.
So I guess Uwe wasn't joking about the KKK, huh?! It would've been chrome hardware if I had decided for two chrome Humbuckers instead. But then, it would've been just another Gibson copy.
The neck is flat, paralel to the body. I wanted to make it angled but I was using a neck blank that I first intended to use for a guitar, so it wasn't tall enough to do that. So I had to raise the plane of the neck to get the right spacing to level the fretboard to the bridge, so there's quite a good space between the string and the body. Some players don't like that though. Here's pic that shows what I'm saying.
(http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww186/daniel_japeta/det_06.jpg)
:vader: Uwe :vader: Is just overly sensitive to chrome ;D And it looks like he's getting more sensitve - he used to call us Chromelings in the past now this? ???
As far as the neck angle, I thought that's what you had done and I've always contemplated just how best to execute the neck through bass in a build myself. How does this feel in comparison to say a Fender setup? Any noticeable difference in the feel over the strings?
Once again this is just a beautiful bass and I also have to compliment you on your excellent camera work as well.
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I added one to my EB4L. Piece of cake. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/100_1867.jpg)
Lovely! Is that mudbucker stock or did you replace the super-humbucking? I liked the way you used something to cover the original switch slot, though it kinda looks like a missplaced thumbrest, or maybe a pinkyrest.
Daniel, beautiful bass ! Even with the black hardware ;)
Maybe I should find a way to post some pictures of my latest build that has lots of chrome on it! Maybe is for the best to try to score some points with the chrome police...
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:vader: Uwe :vader: Is just overly sensitive to chrome ;D And it looks like he's getting more sensitve - he used to call us Chromelings in the past now this? ???
As far as the neck angle, I thought that's what you had done and I've always contemplated just how best to execute the neck through bass in a build myself. How does this feel in comparison to say a Fender setup? Any noticeable difference in the feel over the strings?
Once again this is just a beautiful bass and I also have to compliment you on your excellent camera work as well.
I don't have any preferences as for angled or flat necks, either as a player or a builder. But for a angled neck-through usually you need a very tall neck blank and it might mean more waste of wood than a flat neck.
When playing with a pick I do find it a little uncomfortable when the strings are too far from the body, but since I really don't play much with a pick, I can't comment much about the differences between this setup and a Fender setup. Others might have better comments on this.
BTW, I do work hard to get nice shots when photographing my instruments, but I gotta admit I have a lot of Photoshop experience as well...
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Chrome or not, I'm always interested in seeing projects, and others are too. If they're not Gibson related, feel free to post them in the Projects Mods & Repairs section.
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Lovely! Is that mudbucker stock or did you replace the super-humbucking? I liked the way you used something to cover the original switch slot, though it kinda looks like a missplaced thumbrest, or maybe a pinkyrest.
Maybe I should find a way to post some pictures of my latest build that has lots of chrome on it! Maybe is for the best to try to score some points with the chrome police...
The EB4L ame with a large Humbucker that is very different in design to the "mudbucker" When you bend the string past the pole piece the note doesn't just decay it disapears, so I replaced it with a 70's Gibson Mudbucker.
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The EB4L ame with a large Humbucker that is very different in design to the "mudbucker" When you bend the string past the pole piece the note doesn't just decay it disapears, so I replaced it with a 70's Gibson Mudbucker.
I see. Probably Gibson R&D guys didn't used to bend the string that much when developing those pickups.
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The EB-4L has an individual circular coil for each string. That may be okay in theory. In this case, according to what owners say, there isn't enough of a magnetic field beyond a narrow area around the polepiece screw.
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The EB-4L has an individual circular coil for each string. That may be okay in theory. In this case, according to what owners say, there isn't enough of a magnetic field beyond a narrow area around the polepiece screw.
I didn't know that, I've only seen pictures of those pickups and I thought they were like a P pickup under the cover.
Hey Dave, is there any place (website that is) that I can find more info on Gibson's bass pickups?
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Jules' Fly Guitars site is the best place, it's still a work in progress. His Gibson bass pickup page is here (http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/parts/pickup/). If you're using Internet Explorer, you'll see the innards of the EB-4L right next to its description. If you're using Opera or Firefox, it doesn't render properly, the pix are there but not in the proper location.
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Thanks, Dave! That's a great website.
I've actually seen that website before, but as I remember I was throw off by the confused layout. I guess I was a little unpatient at the time cause I see now that there's a very easy-to-follow cascate menu on the left.
Thanks again!