The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Dave W on July 24, 2018, 07:00:35 PM
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I usually browse Reverb sales just to see what's offered, even though I'm not in the market for anything. This was in the 10% off sale by GearTrader57: 2018 SG Bass (https://reverb.com/item/13638917-gibson-sg-4-string-bass-2018-walnut-finish-w-hard-case) in mint condition. That's not the Babicz bridge we've seen up to now, and it looks like a standard 3-point. They say the bass looks unplayed, plastic is still on the pickguard. Would somebody have replaced the bridge on an unplayed bass and then sell or trade it, or has Gibson gone back to the regular 3-point? Makes me wonder if Babicz could have stopped shipments due to the Chapter 11.
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If we cross our fingers and hope for the best, the 2019 models will have the two point bar bridge :)
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Makes me wonder if Babicz could have stopped shipments due to the Chapter 11.
That would make perfect sense to me.
I have also noticed that Babicz bridges have been extremely hard to get lately. The shops that used to have them readily available no longer have them in stock. I had to wait three months till the one I ordered finally showed up. When it did show up, I noticed it came in a completely different package. The earlier one came in a nice box with foam. The new one is wrapped in a cheaper blister. And the bridge is not produced in USA. (or were they never?)
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This was just posted on the official Gibson Facebook page a few days ago, so IDK?
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/37383004_10155544480270718_6848741200795533312_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=9558141232d3c688d57876c99728ff72&oe=5BDA1351)
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Would somebody have replaced the bridge on an unplayed bass and then sell or trade it, or has Gibson gone back to the regular 3-point?
Wouldn't you be able to see the impression the larger Babicz would make in the wood under the 3 point if it was changed out?
Simplest answer is pre babicz NOS or, as you suggested, Babicz no longer shipping to Gibson (whether due to the bankrupcy or whether Babicz is having it's own supply issues as Rob is suggesting).
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That would make perfect sense to me.
I have also noticed that Babicz bridges have been extremely hard to get lately. The shops that used to have them readily available no longer have them in stock. I had to wait three months till the one I ordered finally showed up. When it did show up, I noticed it came in a completely different package. The earlier one came in a nice box with foam. The new one is wrapped in a cheaper blister. And the bridge is not produced in USA. (or were they never?)
Babicz is relatively small and if Gibson owes them a lot of money, they could be in real trouble, especially since it's almost certainly unsecured.
I'm fairly sure they were originally made in USA, but since you mentioned it, I looked on eBay and found a pic of a Babicz tune-o-matic guitar bridge in the blister packaging with a view of the back. It does say Made in Taiwan. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's a Made In Taiwan price. But they're more expensive than USA Hipshots.
Wouldn't you be able to see the impression the larger Babicz would make in the wood under the 3 point if it was changed out?
Probably.
Simplest answer is pre babicz NOS or, as you suggested, Babicz no longer shipping to Gibson (whether due to the bankrupcy or whether Babicz is having it's own supply issues as Rob is suggesting).
The bass is listed as a 2018 and Babicz has been standard on the SG Bass since 2015, so I don't think it could be pre-Babicz NOS, especially since the bass in the listing is in a new finish for 2018. Soon there will be a full list of Gibson creditors, it will be interesting to see.
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I'm fairly sure they were originally made in USA, but since you mentioned it, I looked on eBay and found a pic of a Babicz tune-o-matic guitar bridge in the blister packaging with a view of the back. It does say Made in Taiwan. Nothing wrong with that as long as it's a Made In Taiwan price. But they're more expensive than USA Hipshots.
The old package does not mention the country where it's made, but I do also think it was made in USA. The new blister package says Made In Taiwan indeed.
I have the feeling that the new bridge has a thinner layer of black paint than the original one. I had to move the saddles a bit for intonation and it immediately got some scratches showing the bare metal from underneath the thin layer of paint.
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I usually browse Reverb sales just to see what's offered...
I guess the first thing that came to mind was on my frequent trips to the USA, your businesses do love to advertise things early. I'm not being asinine here, you do see plenty of advertisements such as 'Come on down to Buckler County Ford, by the Valley Mall Shopping Center on Highway 21 and see the new 2019 SUVs and F-350s', when it's still late Spring/early Summer of 2018. This applies to guitars as much as vehicles.
Without verification of the serial number, it could be classified as a mid-2017 model, but yes, I concur there's some weirdness.
(I just dropped the image of the reverse into Photoshop...the serial number is blotched out, but at 400% the year of manufacture gets scratchy. It could read as 2016 or 2018.)
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I guess the first thing that came to mind was on my frequent trips to the USA, your businesses do love to advertise things early. I'm not being asinine here, you do see plenty of advertisements such as 'Come on down to Buckler County Ford, by the Valley Mall Shopping Center on Highway 21 and see the new 2019 SUVs and F-350s', when it's still late Spring/early Summer of 2018. This applies to guitars as much as vehicles.
Without verification of the serial number, it could be classified as a mid-2017 model, but yes, I concur there's some weirdness.
(I just dropped the image of the reverse into Photoshop...the serial number is blotched out, but at 400% the year of manufacture gets scratchy. It could read as 2016 or 2018.)
That's true of autos and some other products but AFAIK Gibson is the only musical instrument company with official model years, and that only goes back about 10 years.
This one can't be a 2016, since the SG Bass was dropped for the 2016 model year. The walnut finish was never offered until the 2018 model year, which was introduced last fall, so that's the earliest this one could have been made. And in any case, the Babicz has been standard since the start of the 2015 model year.
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I think the best bet is that Babicz ditched Gibson out of not being paid for past deliveries.
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My publisher got an official mail that no open invoices would be paid. We are lucky everything was paid already, cos the publisher tried his very best to get the money, the last couple of months. I can imagine suppliers got the same letter too and are not happy to ship parts.
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Babicz site still identifying themselves as suppliers to Gibson...
fch-4-string-bass-bridge (http://www.fullcontacthardware.com/fch-4-string-bass-bridge)
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Babicz site still identifying themselves as suppliers to Gibson...
fch-4-string-bass-bridge (http://www.fullcontacthardware.com/fch-4-string-bass-bridge)
Babicz are one of those suppliers that are borderline lazy in updating their website; I guess if the site is functional and they don't have any new product they possibly see site updating as an unnecessary expense. They were very slow to add a Gibson page (Wayback Machine shows first add of a dedicated Gibson page was November 2017 and a slight update in January 2018, no changes since then).
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Even if they quit delivering bridge for Gibson, it would still look good on their resumé.
Happens all the time.
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I looked at the public filings and found the top 30 creditors but there are too many interim filings to search for a complete list. No doubt Babicz is owed some serious money considering that they are a small company, whether or not that has anything to do with the bridge on this bass.
I'd rather have a Hipshot anyway. :P
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I don't know how many bass bridges have a five string version available, but I don't see the Gibson five string basses flying off the shelves, new or used.
(https://i.imgur.com/yTKFIRB.jpg)
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There are plenty of five string bass bridges available. Gibson has a hard enough time committing to four string basses. I hope that changes in due time when new management takes over.
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I mistakenly thought the SG I posted a picture of had a Babicz bridge. Here's a T-bird that was just posted on the Gibson facebook page with the same bridge. What is it?
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/38406412_10155571211875718_4114514919368425472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=c0ac9fb4f10e775032253fcbf7dcce8b&oe=5BC55394)
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It looks like the Babicz version meant to retrofit the 3 point oil rig. Same as the 2015 thunderbird had.
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I agree. From this distance, that one looks like a Babicz.
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I agree. From this distance, that one looks like a Babicz.
I'm with Dave, looks like a Babicz to me.
Moonshine
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it's a Babicz
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Ah, OK, thanks. So I'm NOT losing my mind...
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What's interesting to me is that, it seems like the only Gibson 2019 basses that have the Babicz bridge are the latest incarnation of the EB series.
The Tbirds and SG's don't have them, they're back to the 3 pointers.
And newbie here to the LBO.
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What's interesting to me is that, it seems like the only Gibson 2019 basses that have the Babicz bridge are the latest incarnation of the EB series.
The Tbirds and SG's don't have them, they're back to the 3 pointers.
And newbie here to the LBO.
Welcome!
I'll add that they could at least make them in chrome
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Or not, hmpf!
Hi Dr. Strangelove!
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Or not, hmpf!
Hi Dr. Strangelove!
On the finishes they're offering I do think it would be a welcome option at least. They (Gibson) really need a classy girl like me to run the Bass Dept. :-*
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Welcome!
I'll add that they could at least make them in chrome
Thank you, And agreed on the chrome V.
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Or not, hmpf!
Hi Dr. Strangelove!
:)
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Chrome is fine but the black bridge has a nice continuity with the pickups and headstock. I think the three point looks more at home with the classic designs and the babicz is where it belongs on the newer design.
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They (Gibson) really need a classy girl like me to run the Bass Dept. :-*
Best idea I've heard all day! I mean, it's only 10AM, but still... :P
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FWIW I like the Babciz bridge and modern pickups just fine, why can't they be an option on a "modern" Thunderbird? Chrome and a 3 point (or two point like the Epi VP) on a " Classic", and for Christ's sake make the %^&$#*& thing in Pelham Blue and Inverness Green.
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Chrome is fine but the black bridge has a nice continuity with the pickups and headstock. I think the three point looks more at home with the classic designs and the babicz is where it belongs on the newer design.
Keep in mind that the Babicz on the EB 4&5 is their original 5-hole top mount design. It was designed as a drop-in replacement for Fender style bridges and Fender style string spacing at the bridge. Different look than the 3-point Babicz.
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Best idea I've heard all day! I mean, it's only 10AM, but still... :P
Who is going to end up running things? The people Gibson are indebted to don't necessarily have any idea about running an instrument manufacturer. Isn't it a possibility they could simply liquidate and end the brand? Or perhaps they'll put it up for sale or hire another management team to run it. Is there any consensus prediction about what direction Gibson will go? They've already defaulted at this point correct?
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Who is going to end up running things? The people Gibson are indebted to don't necessarily have any idea about running an instrument manufacturer. Isn't it a possibility they could simply liquidate and end the brand? Or perhaps they'll put it up for sale or hire another management team to run it. Is there any consensus prediction about what direction Gibson will go? They've already defaulted at this point correct?
No, it's not a real world possibility. KKR and the other secured creditors will be shedding the electronics businesses. They're committed to running Gibson as a musical instrument company and hiring (hopefully) competent management, just as Fender has done. Not a guarantee of success, of course.
Gibson has not defaulted. Declaring Chapter 11 either stops a default from happening (in Gibson's case), or if a default has already happened, stops it from proceeding further, until the Chapter 11 process is resolved.
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Thanks, that will help me sleep a little easier tonight.
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...and for Christ's sake make the %^&$#*& thing in Pelham Blue and Inverness Green.
Now you've done it, see? You post something on a forum and the bods at Gibson are just sitting there going, 'Aah, that Mark bloke, he suggested painting a Thunderbird in Pelham-something or Inverness-whatsitsname. Oh no, that will never do. No, no, no. Get onto the team in the spray booths and tell them to destroy all the stocks. We can't be giving people what they actually want, not when we can custom-shop it and charge three times more.'
As an aside, you may remember a couple of years back my foray with Thomann, Germany about trying to get them to coerce Gibson into doing a run of different coloured Thunderbirds; the colours banded around at the time were Sapphire Blue and Cardinal Red. It didn't happen as I think there would only have been four buyers (me, Neeph, Mark and Uwe), BUT perhaps/maybe my efforts didn't go unnoticed as a cardinal red run did happen.
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GildedSplinter has a pelham blue bird. Looks like a rebadged Epi though. There are the Non Revs from a few years back too. Inverness green would be great along with all the other custom 60s fins. I'm surprised Mark wouldn't be more into Heather Mist.
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and for Christ's sake make the %^&$#*& thing in Pelham Blue and Inverness Green.
This is what I'm talking about!
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This is what I'm talking about!
If they let me work from home, I'd be all about the job! There's so many really cool things that "could" be done, I sincerely hope that something good does come from the reorganization.
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I'm surprised Mark wouldn't be more into Heather Mist.
Just assume a French accent and say, 'Heather Mist, aah, for the smell of it.'