The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: Stjofön Big on October 04, 2018, 01:55:06 AM
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I've had my 2x15 cabinet, with one ElectroVoice, and one JBL, since -75. Never let me down! Sounds hungry and mean if I want to, and like smooth velvet when needed. But nowadays it's to heavy for me.
So my son, and I, changed speakers. I got his Ampeg Classic, made in Vietnam, 1x15 + Ampeg Classic 4x10. Connected it to my Fender Dual Showman.
Sounded thin!
So I'm thinking, maybe these 4x10 aren't made for me. Should I try to get another 1x15 Ampeg Classic, a 2x12, or something else? Suggestions are more than welcome!
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I find modern 4x10s have a very nasally sound that I don't like.
I say try the 1x15 on it's own to make sure it's giving you the baseline thump you need (some 1x15s can be very middish too or all bass with no mids or top - the EV and JBL combo would have been remarkably full range and balanced ) and if that's a good tonal base, try adding on a 1 or 2 x12.
I'm running a Musicman 115RH, formerly with an EV but now an RCF + a tall /diagonal style 4x12 with a pair of Faitals (highly recommend) + a pair of Weber Neomag 12s (best JBL clone I have found - all the tone/half the weight) which I may try swapping out for a pair of Cerwin Vega ER124s I scored recently. If those CWs work out I'm gonna sell the webers cause I have too many speakers laying about and they're worth too much money to just hold on to.
I wouldn't carry all that to a gig, not the size I play, usually just the 115RH, but it's awesome for jams and recording (flank the drums to get a bit of stereo spread).
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get another 1x15 Ampeg Classic
This! ^^^
Funny, I had an early 70s Ampeg 2x15 with an EV and a JBL for some time back in the 80s.
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I've played some nice (borrowed) rigs with stacked 1x15 cabs, definitely worth a try if you like the one you have.
If you're looking for variety and don't like the 4x10 (I have rarely found one I liked either) ... I'd echo the suggestion to see if there are any 2x12 cabs you can try out.
Or 2x10 for that matter - for reasons I don't understand, I've run into more 2x10s I can work with than 4x10s, which almost never make me happy.
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I find that 12" speakers have much of the character of 15s. I like the suggestion of trying a 2x12.
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When I was gigging, I sometimes brought a second 1x15 to stack.
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Because of the total cone area of the 4x10" being larger than the 1x15" you probably heard more of the 4x10" than the 1x15". So I second the advice to try out each one solo. Not an ideal thing to do with your Dual Showman though because it demands a 4 Ohm load only. Maybe you can use a different amp to get an idea of the character of each cab?
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I find that 12" speakers have much of the character of 15s. I like the suggestion of trying a 2x12.
+1
For bass it's just 12"s or 15"'s for me. My favourite stack has a 2x12" on top of a 1x15".
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Thanks for all the input! Guess I'll start by checking the Dual Showman with just the 1x15. Come to think about it, I'm not sure what that sound will give, som I'm kinda excited by the idea. If satisfied, I'll check with the combination of 2x12, and another 1x15.
Thanks again!
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Building a good cab is a matter of calculating the right dimensions and using the right materials.
When I first heard the Eden D210XLT cab I couldn't believe it was only a 2 x 10 inch cab. It projects very good and the (sub)lows are very good.
I think it is a very clever construction. Plus it's portable. I bought two of those and been a happy camper ever since.
Having said that, my Ampeg B40 (4 x10) cab is the opposite. Very poor efficiency. No tight lows. And way too heavy.
I don't think you can just change a 15" (part of a) cabinet by changing the front flange into a 4 x10 configuration. The depth of the cab should be changed too. And maybe even use of a bass port?
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Two of my rigs include 15s. For the type of sporadic, small-venue gigs I do these days, I either take a pair of Ampeg B100R combos which are stacked and linked together and run as a pair, or a newer Acoustic 1x15 that I modded with an Eminence Gamma 15A and porting to match the speaker. If I need a little extra, I use an Ampeg SVT48HE (4x8" in a 2x10 box) that sits nice atop the 1x15 and gives me additional dispersion, plus a slightly different tone. The 4x8 has a surprising amount of bottom for that configuration, and can be used by itself as well, but is a little short, physically, to be heard well onstage if I'm standing. Nothing sounds as good to my ears as my old 810, but the practicality and logistics required of that are beyond questionable these days :-\.
There is a fair amount of scolding over on TB regarding mixing speaker sizes - especially without a crossover, but as I recall, manufacturers were selling stacks configured that way back in the 90s. Bottom line - if it works for you, then it works.
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There is a fair amount of scolding over on TB regarding mixing speaker sizes - especially without a crossover
TB silliness. My favorite cab is one I conceived and built myself. Basically an Ampeg 2x10 and a TL-606 built into one cabinet.
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TB silliness. My favorite cab is one I conceived and built myself. Basically an Ampeg 2x10 and a TL-606 built into one cabinet.
No xover?
Looks pretty hefty.
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Crossovers aren't necessary and can cause more harm than good in MI applications. There's no need as all MI speakers are intended for full range use and to be 'crossed over' using their natural rolloffs. You're also not necessarily seeking a flat response (e.g. guitar speakers are specifically not flat in response; the ones that have been have not been well liked by guitarists).
I've used them to protect a mid-high fill cab with 2 vintage/low power 6" woofers and 2 tweeters in it from excessive bass that I knew they couldn't handle (used it with the MM 115RH as a small gig all in one bass amp and PA).
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No xover?
Looks pretty hefty.
No, full range. I've never bi-amped a rig before, though I have used 2 amps at the same time (again, full range).
It's a very reasonably-sized cabinet. Pretty close to a Marshall 4x12. I recently swapped out my old EVM-15L (went to my combo amp) for a Eminence neo 15. It went from 110 lbs. to 96.
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+1
For bass it's just 12"s or 15"'s for me. My favourite stack has a 2x12" on top of a 1x15".
I think that stack is great too.
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My favorite "non standard" bass cab setups: three 2x12 Bag End subwoofer cabinets off my now gone 400PS, my Aguilar db728 into Ernie Ball 2x12 bass cabs, and my old Marshall 4x15 paired with a custom 2x15 PA sub using JBL D130's
... or stacking multiple 8x10's: because sometimes you just LOVE showing off the aircraft carrier with the hangar deck empty!
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This is the most unconventional stack I ever had. Four vertical twelves... a pair of EA CXL112 on top of a Schroeder 1212.
(http://slinkp.com/~paul/clarus_tfunk_ea_ea_schroeder_stack.jpg)
The amps up top were a Thunderfunk and an AI Clarus.
I did have all that stuff going at once in my bedroom for about five minutes. It was a pretty big sound :)
Most of it long since sold as it didn't really suit me. Those amps were both much too clean for me, and that Schroeder was all woof and no bite.
It combined well with the EAs but was useless on its own, and I really didn't need that.
The only thing I kept from that rig was one of the EAs, which I still love.
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No, full range. I've never bi-amped a rig before, though I have used 2 amps at the same time (again, full range).
It's a very reasonably-sized cabinet. Pretty close to a Marshall 4x12. I recently swapped out my old EVM-15L (went to my combo amp) for a Eminence neo 15. It went from 110 lbs. to 96.
Oy - EVs are brutal, weight-wise. I had a Fender Studio Bass combo that had the Fender-branded EVM15B. Add to that a 6x6L6 200-watt tube amp in the enclosure, and you have the makings of a hernia.
I also have a Hiwatt 50 1x12 combo that got its Fane replaced with an EVM12L. Sounds great, but barely portable now.
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My favorite "non standard" bass cab setups: three 2x12 Bag End subwoofer cabinets off my now gone 400PS, my Aguilar db728 into Ernie Ball 2x12 bass cabs, and my old Marshall 4x15 paired with a custom 2x15 PA sub using JBL D130's
... or stacking multiple 8x10's: because sometimes you just LOVE showing off the aircraft carrier with the hangar deck empty!
8) 8) 8)
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Oy - EVs are brutal, weight-wise. I had a Fender Studio Bass combo that had the Fender-branded EVM15B. Add to that a 6x6L6 200-watt tube amp in the enclosure, and you have the makings of a hernia.
I also have a Hiwatt 50 1x12 combo that got its Fane replaced with an EVM12L. Sounds great, but barely portable now.
I'll take an EV over a JBL any day of the week ;P
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I'll take an EV over a JBL any day of the week ;P
+1 My EVM15L are killers, great speakers. Weight don't bother me that much.
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But EVs are also lighter than JBLs
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The guitarist in my original band had EVM 12Ls put in his JC 120. It's heavy! The top handle just broke recently. ;D
I like JBL but prefer EV and have found them to take much more abuse. Gotta be honest though, I'm very impressed with the Eminence neo 15 I bought. Deltalite II 2515.
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The guitarist in my original band had EVM 12Ls put in his JC 120. It's heavy! The top handle just broke recently. ;D
Not to pick, but any amp weighing 60 pounds could benefit from locking chest handles on both sides. Carrying an amp like that with a top handle is punishing to the hands and awkward! I did that for my old Fender Bassman 120 and it made it much easier to move.
(https://static-content.cromwell.co.uk/images/854_854/g/jeeps/949/mtl9498050k.jpg)
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JCM 120 are heavy with the stock speakers!
I had an EVM 15L in a (terrible) homemade cabinet as my rig for about 7 years (from high school through college and after). It was a really great speaker and took a lot of abuse, running a mid-eighties ~ 80W solid state Randall head pushed to its limit all the time, before the speaker finally developed a horrible rattle.
A lot of people borrowed that rig from me too, because even undersized as it was, it sounded quite a bit better than most of the other terrible low-budget bass amps that people I knew had at the time :-D So it really got abused.
I possibly could've got it reconed, but the cabinet was completely falling apart too, and I didn't have another 115 cab to put it in, so that was when I finally just got a new rig.
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Not to pick, but any amp weighing 60 pounds could benefit from locking chest handles on both sides. Carrying an amp like that with a top handle is punishing to the hands and awkward! I did that for my old Fender Bassman 120 and it made it much easier to move.
Yeah, I've been in the flight case biz for 22 years. I have to think about handle placement often. He was surprised we don't stock those amp-style strap handles. HA!
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Big mistake, everyone of us! What I thought was an Ampeg Classic, showed up to be a B series HE. Realised my mistake when I went to the rehearsal place tonight. So forget everything I wrote about the Classic 4x10. One of the guitar players, who's also a sound technics, thought I should get rid of both the 410, and the 115...
Tried out my Dual Showman with only the 115. Nope. Now I think that the only solution is 2 115's, as long as I want the sound I've gotten used to. So... as Del Shannon once put it so cleverly: Keep Searching!
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Good idea!
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Keep us posted! Would love to hear what you end up with.
I'm curious, is there anything unusual or special about the Ampeg Classic 115? $500+ strikes me as a bit high for a single fifteen in a pretty standard box.
Plenty of others have 115 cabs in the $300 - $400 range. I wonder what bang you get for the buck.
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Found one Ampeg Classic 115 today, on the net. 1 000 kilometers from here, but the price was right. $ 200. Can't complain. Only transport left to get together. I'll report back later.
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That's a very good price if it's in good shape.
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Indeed, that negates my questioning the value of this model :)
Let us know how it works out!
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Got my Ampeg Classic 115 today. Friend of mine brought it from the south of Sweden, and here to the north. About 1 000 kilometers!
I haven't tried it out yet, but there's one thing I wanna know before the Classic finds it's way to the rehearsal place: I discovered that the wheels for my Ampeg B don't fit my Classic. The leader for the wheel is too thin. Plus one holder for the leader is missing.
Anyone know where to buy a holder, and the right wheels?
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try https://www.fliptops.net/
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I'm not sure what you mean. Is it a stem of a plug-in caster that's too small small in diameter? Is the cabinet missing one of the sleeves that the stem fits into? You may be able to get the parts from an industrial supplier.
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Absolutely right, Dave! Your translation of Swenglish is right at the point! ;) I'm gonna check Rob's suggestion, and maybe it works.
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Absolutely right, Dave! Your translation of Swenglish is right at the point! ;) I'm gonna check Rob's suggestion, and maybe it works.
I see that they have these, but they don't give the stem diameter.
https://www.fliptops.net/catalog/p-100521/caster-stem-style-2-plug-in
https://www.fliptops.net/catalog/p-100522/caster-socket
You probably can find what you need in Sweden, from a general industrial supplier or one that specializes in carts, dollies, grocery carts and the like. Even home improvement centers and woodworking suppliers here carry a good selection.
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That's what I just did! i decided to take the "leader", and the "holder" (Swenglish for sleeve, and plug-in caster) off from the cabinet, and exchange them for 50 mm diameter lockable rubber wheels. Don't understand why I didn't come to think of that solution right away, cause I had put rubber wheels on my old 2x15? Well, sometimes the memory bank is som full of sh-t that it takes some time for it to begin to work on all cylinders (that's gb for the modern man. I'm not).
So, gather round me people, and read my lips: Hope you all have a really nice weekend?
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Checked my new speaker yesterday. Dual Showman on top, underneath it Ampeg B series 1x15, and in the bottom Ampeg Classic 1x15. I'm not impressed.
What I hade in my old cabinet, 1x15 JBL plus 1x15 Elektrovoice, has got much more deep power, shake and roll in this, my first opinion. Gotta spend some time fiddling about with the knobs to see if there's any way to get the sound I want.
Could it be that the Elektrovoice is hard to replace?
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My Mesa 1x15 Diesels both have the stock EV 15L. Aside from twice the power handling compared to the Ampeg, I don't know what the difference in tone might be.
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EVs are dirt easy to replace in North America; over there I have no idea - I suspect less so because they probably weren't as ubiquitous in PA cabs as they were here ( the PA units used the same frame/motor structure so when they blew, and they got blown a lot during their heyday in the Rave years, you could recone it for bass guitar kit vs a sub - I get em for CA$120-140 each for a local reconer - just not the blingy ones with fancy graphic sticker on the back of the magnet).
What might be easier, cheaper (over there), compatible in the same cabs, and actually superior sounding is an RCF L15-554 (Italian made). Should be plenty of those floating around the used market over there; pretty popular (even here, where they cost a lot more). Very EV-like but tighter manufacturing tolerances so a bit more hifi.
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EVs are dirt easy to replace in North America; over there I have no idea - I suspect less so because they probably weren't as ubiquitous in PA cabs as they were here
Not too many of them here in scandinavia I'm afraid. But the last 15L i bought, was located in Stockholm - so there is hope :)
Long drive for a blown speaker, but recone worked and I'm happy.
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So now I've hade time to fiddle with the Dual showman controls. Holy matrimony! What a sound! Earthshaking, and still a clearity that's totally impressing. Our drummer just smiled!
I'm so glad I got hold of the Ampeg Classic 1x15. Wow, 2x15, that's what I'm used to, and that's what I want!
Thanks everyone for all the input! You're great, all of you!
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I'm glad it's working out for you.
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Sounds like a sweet rig. Glad it worked out!
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I have two 1x12 Neo cabs and one 15" with Eminence Kappa Pro LFA-2 speaker. It is a "boat anchor" in weight but sure does sound good and can handle 600 watts RMS while each of the two 1 x 12 Eminence Kappalite 3012HO's handle 450 watts RMS. I can use both 1 x 12 cabs or a 1x12 and 1 x 15. Both 1 x 12's have decent low end, smooth mids and highs and Punchy and high sensitivity allowing them to get quite loud with no muddiness. The 1x12 and 1x15 compliment one another and really gets low, nice mids and smooth highs.
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I'm generally playing mid sized rooms , and not going in the PA , so our stage sound is the room sound . I have to fill the room and have tone , mid volume , not really loud . But there will be times we step on it ...
I went Bergantino about a year ago and was blown away by their cabs . And I've found a 112 and 210 combination will easily handle everything I need . From being outdoors to the mid sized rooms .
They make it easier to hear what you're playing , I don't find myself turning up as much , and am hearing myself better at a lower volume .
Stage sound is rich , not thin . And great room sound .