The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Rickenbacker Basses => Topic started by: mc2NY on January 25, 2014, 08:36:35 AM
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Any Ric Bass "experts" here?
I've played borrowed Pics on occasion and finally thinking about buying one. Looks wise, I have always gravitated toward the 1968-73 ones with the checker binding...also the classic horseshoe PUP of the 68-70-ish years.
I also love the 4005 but the prices are insane.
My question is about the necks. I see Ric moved from one-piece to three-piece during these years. Earlier, I think, on the 4005 than the 4001 ?
So, I'm wondering if it is recommended to stay away from the one-piece necks...or is it just a case by case thing? Meaning, if you find a nice one-piece neck that is straight and the truss rods work from 68-71, it probably is a safe bet it will be OK for another 40 years ?
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If you can find a pre-'85 Ric with a neck that isn't cracked, seriously bowed, or pitched forward, and with truss rod nuts that aren't bent,stripped or otherwise messed up, then the bass will be fine as long as you don't ever use strings heavier than 040-095. Preferably TI's, either Jazz Flats (JF344) or Jazz Rounds (JR344). Some old Rics can handle heavier string gauges, wood isn't exact science, but personally I wouldn't risk it. You also need to learn how to adjust hairpin-type rods. Some damaged necks can be fixed, and the rods can be easily replaced. If you want a Ric with a stable neck that can handle heavier tensions, get a recent one.
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Mid/late 80s-early 90s are my favorite for both feel and stability. I hear the 2011-ish on up are quite nice too.
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So, I'm wondering if it is recommended to stay away from the one-piece necks...or is it just a case by case thing? Meaning, if you find a nice one-piece neck that is straight and the truss rods work from 68-71, it probably is a safe bet it will be OK for another 40 years ?
I don't have any experience with the 68-71s, but my 1995 4003s/8 has a one piece neck and it's fine (well, it is now (http://www.hillscloud.com/2013/02/1995-rickenbacker-4003s8-structural-repair/)... and always was from the standpoint of the truss rods). I've run EXL-100s on my 4001s for a loooog time, and both have been rock solid. I suppose that an old Ric's neck could warp and twist just as easily as they might in an old Fender, and so same risks apply.
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/rickenbacker/b0fe1708-79ee-4d56-b38c-b67965eec644.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/0chromium0/media/forums/rickenbacker/b0fe1708-79ee-4d56-b38c-b67965eec644.jpg.html)
I might be restating what you already know, but the nice thing about most of the Rics is that you can completely remove the rods with no major surgery. That's actually how you adjust the necks, rather than torquing on the truss rod nuts like most other basses. In fact, tightening the rods that way can cause damage - and I think that's what Ilan was getting at about cracks and whatnot. Sometimes you'll see old Rics with big cracks between the fingerboard and neck up by the nut as a result of people adjusting the rods incorrectly.
The necks on mine are really pliable. I pull and resahpe the rods into an arc, use a "stretching jig" (table and ratcheting tie-down straps) to bend the neck to the amount of relief that I want, and then just reinstall the rods and snug them down. The rods won't influence movement of the neck, but rather hold the relief exactly where you (manually) set it.
Here's some pics showing the process on my old '78.
I use a clamp at the first fret to keep from popping the fb off when pulling the rods out. I cut a piece of aluminum channel strip to use as a guide for the rods, and tap them out from the body side:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/ebay/1978_Rickenbacker_4001/DSCF0002_zps72898392.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/0chromium0/media/ebay/1978_Rickenbacker_4001/DSCF0002_zps72898392.jpg.html)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/ebay/1978_Rickenbacker_4001/DSCF0001_zpsf9378ab3.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/0chromium0/media/ebay/1978_Rickenbacker_4001/DSCF0001_zpsf9378ab3.jpg.html)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/ebay/1978_Rickenbacker_4001/DSCF0008_zpsbd5531d9.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/0chromium0/media/ebay/1978_Rickenbacker_4001/DSCF0008_zpsbd5531d9.jpg.html)
Here's a shot of the s8 on the stretching jig:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/rickenbacker/0119131453a_zps63e0fbc4.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/0chromium0/media/forums/rickenbacker/0119131453a_zps63e0fbc4.jpg.html)
So chances are, unless the neck is truly warped/twisted, you'd be able to massage an old Ric neck into shape...
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Just for the record, RIC hasn't used that type of doubled-over rod for close to 30 years. The current rods work the same way as a traditional Gibson or Fender truss rod, except that there are still two of them, each slightly smaller in diameter than a Gibson or Fender rod. They're anchored at the body end by acorn nuts so they can still be unscrewed, removed and replaced if necessary.
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Good point. That stuff I shared about the rods was just for mc2s benefit, since it sounds like he's specifically looking for an early 4001 or 4005 ...and I'm assuming the 4005 has those same type of rods? (no experience with those)
Also worth noting that the pic of my 4003 on the torture rack was not for neck adjustment, but rather structural repairs. I just didn't have a pic of the 4001 on there...
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4005's had the hairpin rods.
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Geez....you scared the crap out of me for a second.
I had adjusted a friend's Ric Cheyenne Bass that had a horribly bowed neck. He'd never adjusted it in the many years he ownd it. The strings were a good 3/4 inch above the frets!! I eventually got it playing great for him.
As I read your post about how to adjust a Ric, I had a flash of his fingerboard bursting off like an airbag :)
That is VERY strange info about the older Ric truss rods.....did not know about that. Looks like a royal PITA to adjust.
I had a line on a killer 1971 4001...same owner 25 years and near mint. Now I'm wondering if I should avoid those old rods.
What year did they change over to normal ones?
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Geez....you scared the crap out of me for a second.
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I had adjusted a friend's Ric Cheyenne Bass that had a horribly bowed neck. He'd never adjusted it in the many years he ownd it. The strings were a good 3/4 inch above the frets!! I eventually got it playing great for him.
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What year did they change over to normal ones?
Yeah figured you'd want to be aware of that with the 4001s - ALL of which adjust that way. The Cheyenne you setup should be fine- that uses the newer (conventional style) rods.
They changed to the new rods in '84 (I think). Even the early 4003s used those old hairpin rods, but they were flipped and remove thru the body end. (notice on the early 4003s that they had a 2pc pickguard to facilitate this).
Also, it's not a given that you have to remove the rods altogether when setting up a 4001. I did on mine just because the truss rod nuts had turned down into the headstock a bit and I wanted to reshape them and correct that. Sometimes the rods can flip/turn in their channels too- if a previous owner attempted to crank on them...
Under normal circumstances, you might just loosen the rod nuts, manually bend the neck to the relief you want, and then snug them up again.
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I think the change was in '85.
The old system had expansion rods inside straight tunnels (standard rods have curved tunnels). You just have to know the correct way to adjust them. The way I have always done it is I have the bass standing in front of me facing forward (with its back to me) on a carpet, the bottom strap button planted firmly in the carpet, my knee pushing the neck forward (lightly) at about the 12th fret, giving it a back bow, while my left hand is pulling the neck at the first fret toward me; then I tighten the nuts with my right hand, while sighting down the neck to make sure it's locked straight. It's really simple and easy to do. You flex the neck to where you want it to be, then you lock it in that position with the rods. It's advised to clamp the fretboard at the 1st fret to make sure you don't pop it.
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I had a line on a killer 1971 4001...same owner 25 years and near mint. Now I'm wondering if I should avoid those old rods.
I wouldn't let it scare you off - go for it!
I had that mapleglo 4001 for ~25 years, and the neck on it was probably the most stable of any bass that I've owned. I didn't so much as touch the rods the entire time I owned it (even moving between different climates), and the work I did in those pics above was just so that the new owner could adjust it easily if needed in the future (reshaping the rods to fix the downturned truss rod nuts). My '73 also had that issue going on, but from this point forward any adjustments will be easy. I've had that one around two years now, and it has also been rock solid stable.
Just sharing my (limited) experiences with them since you never know what you might inherit until the bass in your hands.. and just so you're aware they are a little different. The nice thing about the Rics is that at least you can dig into the necks a little further than on most basses without major surgery.
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If a '71 has lasted this long without the issues Ilan mentioned earlier, I wouldn't be scared off.
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That is VERY strange info about the older Ric truss rods.....did not know about that. Looks like a royal PITA to adjust.
This is why I believe so many Rics "broke" in the 70s and their owners moved on to Fenders or whatever.
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I agree. That and the bass-cut capacitor on the treble pickup. Too bad there were no online bass forums back then.
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I would have never had a clue about adjusting these if it wasn't for the forums, and I'm thankful I never did need to adjust my MG 4001 all those years- I probably would have f-ed it up! It's a miracle too- as I ran at least 3-4 different types of stings on it over all those years...
It was either early-on here or at the last place where Ilan posted some pic of a white 4001 with the rods halfway out that prompted me to look into it more...
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From the 1975 servicing manual:
"To straighten the neck, remove the nameplate on the head of the instrument. Then, with the left hand holding the neck on the fret side of the nut (NEVER hold the head of the guitar) and the right hand holding the other end of the neck, between the 15th and 21st frets, straighten out the neck by carefully bending across the knee. A second person holding the Rickenbacker nut driver can then adjust the reinforcing rods as required. It is important that the neck is only bent and adjusted in this fashion a little at a time (never bend more than 16th at a time). If necessary repeat this procedure until the neck is straight."
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll127/ilanlukatch/1975Ricservicinginstructionsmanual.jpg)
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I agree. That and the bass-cut capacitor on the treble pickup. Too bad there were no online bass forums back then.
Right! Forgot about "the cap". My oldest is an '89, so no caps here. ;D
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From the 1975 servicing manual:
"To straighten the neck, remove the nameplate on the head of the instrument. Then, with the left hand holding the neck on the fret side of the nut (NEVER hold the head of the guitar) and the right hand holding the other end of the neck, between the 15th and 21st frets, straighten out the neck by carefully bending across the knee. A second person holding the Rickenbacker nut driver can then adjust the reinforcing rods as required. It is important that the neck is only bent and adjusted in this fashion a little at a time (never bend more than 16th at a time). If necessary repeat this procedure until the neck is straight."
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You have to wonder how many people (including guitar repairmen) ignored this and damaged or ruined the neck. I do remember hearing reports of fretboards being popped off from the rods just being cranked.
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The whole process sounds more complex and touch and go in description than it actually is, I've set the necks on both my 4001 and the 4005 no sweat and at first attempt (following Ilan's instructions in another, older thread, danke!). The good thing is that there is not much movement on those old Ric necks once you have set them up, unlikely that you would have to do it again unless under extreme conditions.
Opposed to that, my 4003S/8 with the new truss rod system has given me huge and repeated issues. I dread setting that up.