My London Experience

[Barklessdog]

First, the dollar is worthless compared to the Euro & Pound. Second, its kind of a long flight and third I think a vast majority of Americans do not fly on vacations, can't afford it.

People who do travel overseas I find are either upper middle class (what ever that means - Lexus owners)  and or people on church mission trips.

I found it to be one of the best vacations I have been on and would to go to Europe again, maybe somewhere less expensive like Ireland or Scotland. My wife said Ireland was one of her favorite places she has been to, and was treated very well as an American. Apparently the Irish do not hold high regards for the British though, she said.

I guess not everyone one is loved everywhere.

[TBird1958]

 One thing I've always been grateful to my parents for: taking me and my brother to Europe for a 3 month stay when we were young, about 1971. As my Mom's parents were still alive we stayed with them in a small town in called Annweiler located in the southwest of Germany near the French border.
It was an experience to remember for a lifetime, I'll never forget how nice people were, and how civilized everyone was........You could go for an evening walk and complete strangers would just in passing by say "good evening". This is the castle above the town where my mom grew up.........



I really do belive that Europeans have a much greater sense of civility and common sense than *most* americans, or as I stated some time ago we just have a much higher "idiot factor here. 
 And while I can't often fly to the continent these days it's just about as nice to take a short road trip north to Vancouver, B.C. Just crossing the border brings back some of that European common sense, and for that, I truly love Canada. 


       

[OldManC]

Ha Fraulein, you reminded me of something I haven't thought of in a while. When I came home from England, I noticed after a few weeks that people on the street were looking at me as if I were strange. I couldn't figure it out until I realized that my saying, Hiya, or good morning or whatever to everyone I passed on the street was freaking them out. After 18 months in England, it seemed perfectly normal to me! 

I heard a Professor from Columbia University, New York, give a lecture here in UK and he claimed that only (IIRC) 5% of US citizens owned a passport and that even amongst congressmen the figure was only 30%. His point was, of course, that most US citizens do not travel abroad and so had little knowledge and little experience of other cultures. I don't know how accurate his figures were but, assuming there is some truth in what he claimed, why do so many US citizens not travel more?

The first obvious answer is cost. In England, buying a return ticket to Germany or Italy is like me flying from LA to Chicago or closer. Second, I think it's a bit of a stretch to equate a drunken weekend in Ibiza with any knowledge of international relations or culture. I may be out of the ordinary (but I doubt it) and offhand, I can think of friends and relatives that have lived in or visited; Japan, Taiwan, Mexico, Brazil, Russia, Argentina, Uruguay, Australia, Korea, Honduras, UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Finland, Norway, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Liberia, Israel, Tahiti, Romania, and the list goes on. Again, I don't think that makes any of them experts on the countries they've visited, but I don't think Americans are generally any more insular than citizens of other countries.

Granted (as John mentions above), many of those trips were missionary related but not all of them were, and a great deal of those people ended up going back many times after that (like me). I think part of that is that once you've crossed the threshold and seen it's not that hard to visit other parts of the world, it's easier to do it again.

[PhilT]

One thing I've always been grateful to my parents for: taking me and my brother to Europe for a 3 month stay when we were young, about 1971. As my Mom's parents were still alive we stayed with them in a small town in called Annweiler located in the southwest of Germany near the French border.
It was an experience to remember for a lifetime, I'll never forget how nice people were, and how civilized everyone was........You could go for an evening walk and complete strangers would just in passing by say "good evening". This is the castle above the town where my mom grew up.........

And Trifels castle is where Richard the Lionheart was held to ransom after the crusades. And it's a beautiful town.

Once the kids got old enough to be interested, our idea of a holiday was to take the ferry to France and drive - nothing booked, just a vague idea of where we wanted to go. This particular year the target was northern Italy, specifically Merano, but when we got there it was hot, crowded and difficult to find anywhere to stay. So we baled and headed back into Germany and landed up in Annweiler. We really had no idea where we were and then discovered this half forgotten bit of English history. That was what we liked about not having much of a plan.

[Andrew]

I really do belive that Europeans have a much greater sense of civility and common sense than *most* americans, or as I stated some time ago we just have a much higher "idiot factor here. 
 And while I can't often fly to the continent these days it's just about as nice to take a short road trip north to Vancouver, B.C. Just crossing the border brings back some of that European common sense, and for that, I truly love Canada.       

Man, I'm nearly living a Euro holiday and I didn't even know it. 

[uwe]

Actually, I find Canada "more European" than the US too. Canada to me is a (good) mix of 1/3 England (or France, depending on where you are), 1/3 Scandinavia and 1/3 US.

[Andrew]

That's an interesting mix Uwe, what aspect of Scandinavia do you find in Canadian culture? I'm not familiar with Scandinavia so I'm intrigued to learn about the similarities.

[Dave W]

And here I always thought it was the Scots influence that made Canadians say "oot" and "aboot." 

[uwe]

That's an interesting mix Uwe, what aspect of Scandinavia do you find in Canadian culture? I'm not familiar with Scandinavia so I'm intrigued to learn about the similarities.

Not just culture, but nature and architecture too. Culturally, Canadians have that "friendly shyness" I find with Scandinavians too, i.e. they won't make the first step in getting to know you (unlike the outgoing people in that country beneath Canada ...), but they are friendly to you if you do. I also find the "let's not get too excited about this (whether good or bad)" attitude that prevails in Canada inherently Scandinavian. And finally, all of Canada seems like one giant middle class to the visitor, divisions of class and wealth are much less visible than either in the UK (still very much a class society) or the US (a wealth as opposed to a class society, with some racial divisons) - that too strikes me as Scandinavian.

Uwe

[Max Soren]

I've often wondered about Scandinavia.  I've always had a positive attitude toward it.  Much of this has to do with the fact that I've spent a lot of time reading the books of the Dane Soren Kierkegaard, although I'm now selling all those books simply because I need the money.  But in my limited contact with Scandinavians they strike me as aloof, brooding and just plain hard to figure out.  I can definitely believe that this concept of a "friendly shyness" has validity, though.  I certainly agree with the way their societies are structured.  Of course Sweden, Denmark, and Norway aren't exactly the same, but the similarities outweigh the differences--to an outside observer at least.  I'm under the impression they like to emphasize the differences, though. 

[SKATE RAT]

the Finn's will drink you under the table.

[Essential Tension]

I just got back from four days in Istanbul, my first time in Turkey. It's a city of over 11 million people (which makes it 4th largest in the world according to Wikipedia) with a history going back as far as the foundation of its predecessor Byzantium over 2,500 years ago. So in four days we didn't see much of it but what we did see was cleaner than London, friendlier than London, politer than London, felt safer than London, with apparently less crime than London - we weren't warned even about pickpockets. Although, unfortunately, it was not much less expensive than London.

When we walked some back streets outside of the tourist areas looking for shops selling antiques - I don't mean expensive antique shops but just people running a little shop from the front of their house selling old items of cultural interest, old jewellery, that sort of thing -  we felt very comfortable without any fear of being mugged or whatever. People say hello and offer help without being asked if they think you look as if you might need it and often want to talk about football (i.e. 'soccer') as they watch the English Premier League on TV. They like it if you can name any of Istanbul's football teams - which I could, the three who play in the European Champions League (Galatasaray, Fenerbahçe, Besiktas), so that went well.



There are some extremely beautiful mosques - most interesting of which was Hagia Sophia (Saint Sophia), a church built in the 6th century which was converted to a mosque in the the 15th century and still contains mosaics of Jesus, Mary, John the Baptist etc. The Topkapi Palace is the former home of the sultans and their harems and now a museum in which we spent nearly a whole day.

However, our driver from the airport to our hotel spoke on his mobile phone almost all the way while also talking to us, pointing out places of interest, negotiating very heavy traffic and sounding his horn about once each minute.

I'll need to go again as there was so much more to see in Istanbul and then there's also the rest of Turkey beyond Istanbul.

[Essential Tension]

The first obvious answer is cost. In England, buying a return ticket to Germany or Italy is like me flying from LA to Chicago or closer. Second, I think it's a bit of a stretch to equate a drunken weekend in Ibiza with any knowledge of international relations or culture. I may be out of the ordinary (but I doubt it) and offhand, I can think of friends and relatives that have lived in or visited; Japan, Taiwan, Mexico, Brazil, Russia, Argentina, Uruguay, Australia, Korea, Honduras, UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Finland, Norway, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Liberia, Israel, Tahiti, Romania, and the list goes on. Again, I don't think that makes any of them experts on the countries they've visited, but I don't think Americans are generally any more insular than citizens of other countries.

Granted (as John mentions above), many of those trips were missionary related but not all of them were, and a great deal of those people ended up going back many times after that (like me). I think part of that is that once you've crossed the threshold and seen it's not that hard to visit other parts of the world, it's easier to do it again.

Might it also be that, with the US being as large and as geographically diverse as it is, you can get, say, a hot beach holiday or a skiing holiday and everything in between within the US? Whereas here in the UK if you want real heat you have to go to Spain, Tunisia, or anywhere Mediterranean.

And you're right of course about drunken weekends wherever they take place.

[uwe]

Istanbul is pretty much breathtaking. I've only been there for a two day business trip during which I felt sick throughout (no blame for the Turks, I had picked up a virus in Switzerland before - of all places), but I remember how impressive the Bosporus was (one huge river) and how different, yet both impressive, the European and the Asian part of the city where. Wanna go there again.

Uwe