Isn't it terrible ...

[Highlander]

Nothing active presently in my herd...

[Father Gino]

I guess I'm deaf but I don't really get the big deal about the active/passive thing. If it wasn't for amps you'd have no bass guitar. If ya wanna get snooty about amps, get an upright and a drummer with brushes. Any electric bass you've heard goes through at least one pre-amp and often several.

I also don't get the big deal about different pre-amps in basses. To me, the best ones are transparent; a volume boost and some useful EQ if you want it. Set 'em flat adjust the volume to equal the pre bypassed and it's the same sound. Turn up the volume and you can overdrive your amp's pre a little. Or a lot. Or not at all.

I had a G&L L2K who's pick ups were hotter is passive mode than any of my active basses.

[Highlander]

I just don't understand the generalizations. Except for the original EMGs, pretty much all actives are really passive pickups with active preamps. No different from putting an active stompbox preamp in your signal path, or for that matter, than the active preamp section of your amp.

Killjoy...

[Pilgrim]

I wonder how many passive bass players run their signal through various pedals which have variations on preamp functions as well.  Probably never crosses their minds.

[mc2NY]

... that we all tend to make disparaging jokes about active basses here, but whenever I play a 9-volt-battery-entrailed bass at a rehearsal the guitarists inevitably (and not knowing that it is battery-fed) go: "Oh, that one sounds real good!"

It's like they have a certain active sound downloaded in their rodent brains and when they hear it they just can't resist. 

I would think guitarists gravitate to the active bass sound over passive because, IMO, an active bass sounds more "guitar like," or at least can.  A passive bass is more bass-like.
....and we all know how guitarists love themseleves and their sound. So it seems natural that they would most like other instruments that seem to more emulate them, between their glances in the rehearsal room mirrors

[uwe]

I wonder how many passive bass players run their signal through various pedals which have variations on preamp functions as well.  Probably never crosses their minds.

Never understood that preamp thing, on or off board, never done it. On any bass amp I generally dial in bass full or a little less, mids about half, treble 3/4. Miraculously, that gives me a sound I'm content with in 9 out of 10 cases. If not, it's the amp's fault, has to be.  That said, I have now started switching between SVT, Orange and Markbass sounds/amps from song to song, bass to bass, at random as my whim strikes me. I'm not sure whether my bandmates even notice a difference. I really have to point them to it.

[Dave W]

Never understood that preamp thing, on or off board, never done it. On any bass amp I generally dial in bass full or a little less, mids about half, treble 3/4. Miraculously, that gives me a sound I'm content with in 9 out of 10 cases. If not, it's the amp's fault, has to be.  That said, I have now started switching between SVT, Orange and Markbass sounds/amps from song to song, bass to bass, at random as my whim strikes me. I'm not sure whether my bandmates even notice a difference. I really have to point them to it.

Your SVT, Orange and Markbass heads all have active preamps.

This discussion reminds me of a thread years ago at the Pit. A member insisted that he would never have an active bass b/c he wanted the "pure" sound of the bass -- as if a solid body bass has a usable sound without the electronics --  yet he ran his basses into a Sadowsky preamp/DI stompbox, which has the exact same preamp circuit as Roger installs in his basses. When I asked him what would be the difference between installing a Sadowsky onboard preamp and duct-taping his pedal to the body of his bass, he got very offended. 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Your SVT, Orange and Markbass heads all have active preamps.

The SVT (even though it's a CL) only "sorta" has an active preamp. In most tube amps, the preamp gain stages are just straight voltage gain and the tone controls are all passive cut only after that stage except for the midrange, which is a band pass filter with its own separate gain stage to allow boosting the mids. Most tube amps work this way sans the active mids, which is why tube amps are so much more sensitive to pickup tonal differences (and generally brighter overall BTW) than s/s preamps. The pickups are directly impedance-coupled to the first half (most preamp tubes are dual triodes) of the first preamp tube and the passive tone controls come AFTER. There are exceptions: the Fender Super Twin/Studio Bass actually has an active EQ for its tone controls and Mesa's bass graphic EQ's split the difference: the knobs are a normal passive filter network, but the graphic EQ is a completely separate split band active gain stage after the fact.

Onboard (or pedal) preamps also provide a more robust current/power drive. Dig into a passive pickup and its electronic resonance starts getting VERY prevalent and low end starts dropping off: pickups magnets are simply too small to provide an equally induced current at extreme voltage swings (transients) and current is where low end comes from. There is a very real difference in the type of signal put out from a passive versus an active bass.

[Father Gino]

Never understood that preamp thing, on or off board

This I can believe 

never done it.

This I do not believe. Because...

On any bass amp I generally dial in bass full or a little less, mids about half, treble 3/4.

Those are the control knobs of your pre-amp. All amplifier systems have preamps  or they woulda make a no sound. Even if they have no EQ at all they need to have a premp

You are using that preamp to alter your tone, Pretty drastically too I might add. I've no experience with SVTs or Oranges but the Mark Bass has an active preamp. That means that all the tone knobs straight up are doing nothing. Turn the bass knob to the left and you reduce the volume of the lower frequencies. Turn the bass knob to the right and you get more volume to the lower frequencies.

Then there are passive preamps. I am most familiar with the Alembic F1X which has a passive Bandaxall tone stack like many a guitar amp (I believe it is basically the pre-amp of a Fender Showman). It has bass, middle and treble controls that are really more like filters. When you boost the bass, you're really filtering off some of the mids  & highs so that the bass notes get relatively louder.

Active or passive the end result is more or less the same. It's all about the relative boosting/cutting certain frequencies. On an active pre, you can get a similar result in different ways: for example: Boost the bass & treble, leave the mids flat - or - leave the bass and treble flat and cut the mids. In the second option you have to also boost the volume off course. Both ways are going to give you a basic "scoop"/smiley face EQ setting. That's more or less what you're doing with your "bass full or a little less, mids about half, treble 3/4."

Personally, I prefer the active method. It's more intuitive but it usually has more unnecessarily drastic capabilities. I can't believe that people can play a Stingray live with the bass & treble maxed. I loved the F1X but it was hard to get a decent sound in a crappy sounding room.

Meanwhile, your passive bass with a single tone knob is again a kind of filter. The "pure" sound of the pick-up is with the tone maxed out to the trebley  side of things. Turn it down and you're cutting some upper frequencies.

I like active basses for playing live. I can potentially fix an acoustically crappy room a little easier because I can at least hear my EQ changes at the end of my patch cord. I also like saturating the input into the amp,sorta poor man's compression like an old toob amp. But I think I play with a relatively light touch too.

Basses are not guitars. Guitars don't have some of our issues sound wise. Your basic 4 string is of course one octave lower than a guitar and those low frequencies are hard to control and can easily get out of hand in a live setting. I think an active bass gives you some more control of the situation.

A lot of "good bass sound" in a live setting involves not reproducing the lowest frequencies that a bass guitar makes. You don't really want to hear the lowest fundamental too much because it will turn into pure mud in all but the best of rooms. Active pre-amps in the bass or out of it let you more precisely remove some of what you have too much off in a particular situation.

As an interesting aside, the bottom octave of a Hammond organ does not have a fundamental at all. What you hear/perceive as the low part of those notes is the first harmonic and a fifth. An old organ trick is to play a low note with the fifth that is perceived lower than the fundamental. Hammond organs are even more of an abomination against god & nature than electric guitars.

[westen44]

^^^
I would also put singers who sing off key and drummers with timing issues on the list of abominations against God & nature. 

[Pilgrim]

Hammond organs are even more of an abomination against god & nature than electric guitars.

All I can say is, thank heavens for the abomination of the Hammond B3!! I'll light a candle at that altar any day.

[westen44]

All I can say is, thank heavens for the abomination of the Hammond B3!! I'll light a candle at that altar any day.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

As an interesting aside, the bottom octave of a Hammond organ does not have a fundamental at all. What you hear/perceive as the low part of those notes is the first harmonic and a fifth. An old organ trick is to play a low note with the fifth that is perceived lower than the fundamental. Hammond organs are even more of an abomination against god & nature than electric guitars.

That's the Leslie and a combination of the speaker/enclosure's tuning and the undersized power tube amplifier distorting.  The Hammond itself is happily putting out all kinds of fundamental

[mc2NY]

^^^
I would also put singers who sing off key and drummers with timing issues on the list of abominations against God & nature.

My GF LOVES to sing.....but is so tone deaf and off key that it hurts to listen to her. But she dances around singing and looks so happy that I just try to bear it...usually from a different room. Driving long distance with her in the passenger seat, singing along to the radio is truly unbearable. I use earplugs.

The funniest part is, she has two large parrots that sort of dance to the music as she sings.....and then they sing along miming her TOTALLY OFF KEY!!  Nornally the parrots sing or whistle sort of on key when not singing with her....so it is really funny to hear them immitate her


------- Regarding the B3..... Man, that Vanilla Fudge track is a prefect argument in defense of the B3!!! i hadn't listened to it in ages. Just steller, especially considering when it was recorded.
One of the best cover songs ever, up there with Hendrix' "All Along the Watchtower."

[westen44]

My GF LOVES to sing.....but is so tone deaf and off key that it hurts to listen to her. But she dances around singing and looks so happy that I just try to bear it...usually from a different room. Driving long distance with her in the passenger seat, singing along to the radio is truly unbearable. I use earplugs.

The funniest part is, she has two large parrots that sort of dance to the music as she sings.....and then they sing along miming her TOTALLY OFF KEY!!  Nornally the parrots sing or whistle sort of on key when not singing with her....so it is really funny to hear them immitate her


------- Regarding the B3..... Man, that Vanilla Fudge track is a prefect argument in defense of the B3!!! i hadn't listened to it in ages. Just steller, especially considering when it was recorded.
One of the best cover songs ever, up there with Hendrix' "All Along the Watchtower."

That's a very amusing story about your girlfriend.  I can almost imagine that.  LOL. 

I totally agree on "You Keep Me Hanging On" being in the same cover song category as "All Along the Watchtower."  Greatness in both cases as far as I'm concerned.