New two-pickup Starfire by Guild

[Happy Face]

Whatever.

But I cannot imagine what bands you folks were listening to or playing with back then. Outside of YES and James Brown, there were few interesting bands that didn't sound ragged live.

Beyond the self-inflicted issues, there was the lack of monitors, the lack of sequencers and the lack of decent, affordable tuners. Can you remember the first time you had monitors on stage?

But there was a true energy in those ragged shows, especially when compared to the half live/half recorded shows we are treated to now.

[amptech]

 Outside of YES and James Brown, there were few interesting bands that didn't sound ragged live.

I'm not old enough to prove otherwise, but I do listen to music from the late 60's to the late 70's almost exclusively.
Listening to live recordings and watching live videos from that time is proof enough I'd say; just as easy now as then to see if drugs or alcohol ruins the performance or not. I liked Jefferson's bass sound when I started playing bass, but they do have some iffy live moments documented that at least to some point was worsened by substances, and slicks voice (though subjective)

As for monitoring, sure it has changed but you have had brilliant performances ever since ampifiers hit the stage (say, charlie christian era) and it all comes down to how the band communicates, huh?

[drbassman]

Whatever.

But I cannot imagine what bands you folks were listening to or playing with back then. Outside of YES and James Brown, there were few interesting bands that didn't sound ragged live.

Beyond the self-inflicted issues, there was the lack of monitors, the lack of sequencers and the lack of decent, affordable tuners. Can you remember the first time you had monitors on stage?

But there was a true energy in those ragged shows, especially when compared to the half live/half recorded shows we are treated to now.

Well, I was fortunate enough to see a lot of bands live in the 60-70's and many of them were very good live.  Not the same studio quality sound and missing of the added studio elements, but fine musicians who took their music seriously.

Bands I saw that didn't suck like the Airplane. Emerson, Lake and Palmer; Steve Miller; Leslie West and Mountain; Johnny Winter; Elton John; Spencer Davis Group; Joni Mitchell; James Taylor.  Current group, DMB.  Unreal live IMHO.  Dave might drink too much, but he's a consummate performer.  Too old to remember any more!  Performing live is no excuse for playing like a ham handed chimp, forgetting 2/3rds. of the lyrics and singing like a tone deaf frog.

[Pilgrim]

Amen, Bill.  II'll take a real live performance from the 60's or 70's over many of the sounds of today...especially when the sound guy boosts the ultra-low end up to the point of pain and where it blocks much of the sound of the vocals and other instruments. I've been to concerts which were much Less audible and even louder than the early 70's...and the sound problems ruined the performance.  I complained about a performance of the Robert Randolph band here for just those reasons.

Blood Sweat & Tears, Chicago, Earth Wind and Fire and (of course) The Moody Blues all should be added to the list of groups that sounded great live.  And I also heard Elvin Bishop play back then, and he knocked everybody's socks off.

[Happy Face]

Yes, add Moody Blues to the list! And BB King. (I got to sit on his amp for part of a show in 1969)

But good lord, we saw Johnny Winter in the early 70s when he played 20 minutes, took an hour break and then "played" for 15. Really sad. Thankfully he was much better when I saw him in his later years. And ELP, well, like the later Grace, there were some alcohol issues at times.....  Etc.

But as you said, we are all remembering things. 

If you care to view some killer live performances by the Airplane, rent "Fly Jefferson Airplane" and "A Night at the Family Dog 1970" which also has Santana and the Dead on it. They could be an awesome band. Sadly, at the end of the run, alcohol got the best of Grace.

Just as so many good musicians and bands were felled by the migration from pot to heroin. Thank god I missed that one.

[shadowcastaz]

Sooo perdy.

Ditto!

[nofi]

i remember a long thread from the PIT about whether sitting on your amp would damage your privates or not. the jury is still out on that one. i saw winter around the still alive and well period and he had no problem playing the whole show without a break. when i saw the old bands , for me i was just thrilled to see them and did not pay much  attention to the 'raggedy' factor unless it was unavoidable { joe cocker 1972}.i saw all the usual rock suspects but was lucky to see some blues and jazz guys before they passed. they include muddy waters, willie dixon, albert king. freddy king, jimmy reed, rashann roland kirk, mike bloomfield, a young stevie ray vaughn in the cobras, etc.

willie dixon's bass player used a fireglo rick circa 1974? willie had his trusty doghouse bass up there but rarely played it.

[drbassman]

Truth is, they are all only human and many had their good days and bad days.

Thinking more, I saw Grand Funk, Procol Harum, they were great.

This has been a fun trip down memory lane!

[uwe]

I'm late to the party (in more ways than one), but by the mid seventies all pro bands had monitors, good to excellent PAs (those lovely Martin bins that would just bludgeon you into submission) and their live gigs weren't any worse to what you hear today, just louder (max volume has been curtailed in Germany in the 90ies) and less taped vocals.

As for Grace - there were better singers out there, sure, but I always found her voice had a certain steelish quality which I liked. But what do I know, I even like Cher's voice. Grace was a piece of work on a bad day, but so were many male rock stars. She at least wasn't any worse than Lou Reed who's probably by now been kicked out of heaven for his mood swings. 

And now for the medical part:

" ... whether sitting on your amp would damage your privates or not ... the jury is still out on that one ..."

Lieber Nofi, this being the forum of scientific evidence, I can share with, console and at the same time reassure you: I have spent countless hours sitting on tube and transistor amps in too many rehearsal spaces to remember. I have two +20 year old children, they are physically and mentally healthy (the latter in a roundabout way at least). I was at the urologist two weeks ago or so: He marvelled at the high blood oxygen and the fertility of my testicles (I have two, unlike other notable Germans in history). Any better, and the mere touch of my scrotum would cause fingertip touch induced pregnancies of the other - what am I talking: any!!!! - gender in osmosis-like fashion!

I'm glad I could help clear that one up. 

PS: Actually, my favourite place to sit during a rehearsal is my 18" Ampeg cube cab (the 8x10" fridge is no good for that, I'm a little uncomfortable with heights). Hitting a low E is a nice, manhood-reassuring feeling on there. 

[copacetic]

I saw the Airplane in 1968 at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam and they were in top form instrumentally and vocally. I was not under the influence of anything except the glorious bass sound Casady was producing. Actually they sounded great in that masterful concert hall and their engineers got it perfect. Living in Europe in those days there were plenty of opportunities to see bands like The Who, Hendrix, Cream etc. I get the whole Entwhistle thing, always a bit too trebly for me and Bruce muddy live. Casady's system blew them all away as far as bass sound, balance in that live setting. I had been playing bass already 3 years by then and on that night I realized the religious connotations of the bass and I converted 100%.  (Btw that same night the Doors were on the bill in an aborted form after Morrison oD'd in stage dancing to Plastic Fantastic Lover!)

[uwe]

"religious connotations of the bass"

[uwe]

How uncanny is that: I have a Brennan JB7 here in the office and it stores about 800 CDs uncompressed losslessly, that is about 10.000 individual songs. It's on random all day and what played just now: Jefferson Airplane's "Pretty as you feel"!!! I'm expecting ole Grace to make an appearance out of my office cupboard any time now ...

Naw, she ain't coming, instead Eric Bloom is now belting out "Going through the motions" in that great, newish Culture Factory remaster of Spectres ...

[Pilgrim]

Now that I listen more carefully to the Ox on recordings, I'm flat amazed at how trebley and metallic his sound often was.  It's not a sound I enjoy from most musicians, but that guy was magic.

[uwe]

He sounded plain horrible sometimes - all distortion, 9 volt battery pumped up sound, low action clatter on fretboard and, how shall I put this, not over-obsessed with the groove of the band, very much a lead bassist. And he himself said that he hated playing Magic Bus because holding down that hypnotic rhythm bored him to tears. But there was still enough that was great about him too.

OTOH, Jack Bruce's latter day fretless playing with no note unmodulated was an acquired taste too.

[Happy Face]

I saw the Airplane in 1968 at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam and they were in top form instrumentally and vocally. I was not under the influence of anything except the glorious bass sound Casady was producing. Actually they sounded great in that masterful concert hall and their engineers got it perfect. Living in Europe in those days there were plenty of opportunities to see bands like The Who, Hendrix, Cream etc. I get the whole Entwhistle thing, always a bit too trebly for me and Bruce muddy live. Casady's system blew them all away as far as bass sound, balance in that live setting. I had been playing bass already 3 years by then and on that night I realized the religious connotations of the bass and I converted 100%.  (Btw that same night the Doors were on the bill in an aborted form after Morrison oD'd in stage dancing to Plastic Fantastic Lover!)

Wow! I have a Doors Laserdisc about that show. Both the Doors and Airplane talked about Jim's dance. Gracie also explained why he was so prone to that accident. I believe it was called "The Doors in Europe." It may be out on dvd now.

IMO, the guys in the Airplane were really kind and gracious to their opening bands.