The Highlander will of course know better but I learned something from it ...

dadagoboi · September 19, 2014, 07:02:53 PM

Thank you for the eloquent history lesson, Kenny. We'll see what comes of the promises made to convince so many to vote no.

uwe · September 19, 2014, 08:07:58 PM

I think the outcome of the referendum has put the lid on any England aspirations to have the UK leave the EU - that would provoke a secession of Scotland once again. Whitehall will be careful.

dadagoboi · September 20, 2014, 04:44:01 AM

Quote from: uwe on September 19, 2014, 08:07:58 PM
I think the outcome of the referendum has put the lid on any England aspirations to have the UK leave the EU - that would provoke a secession of Scotland once again. Whitehall will be careful.

I was listening to BBC coverage last night. The English pols have already started dragging their feet on promised changes.

This is the 'democratic' version of what the Russians are doing to the Ukranians.

4stringer77 · September 20, 2014, 01:20:52 PM

Quote from: uwe on September 19, 2014, 08:07:58 PM
I think the outcome of the referendum has put the lid on any England aspirations to have the UK leave the EU - that would provoke a secession of Scotland once again. Whitehall will be careful.

I would have thought if Scotland won independence it'd want to be independent from the EU as well. The whole thing isn't exactly coming up roses for Portugal, Italy, Ireland and Greece either right?

patman · September 20, 2014, 01:41:05 PM

Kenny,

I would be interested in reading of this...can you recommend any well written histories of modern Scotland? Your post made me understand that I don't have a clue about what's really going on here.

Pat

Rob · September 20, 2014, 02:41:10 PM

Quote from: patman on September 20, 2014, 01:41:05 PM
Kenny,

I would be interested in reading of this...can you recommend any well written histories of modern Scotland? Your post made me understand that I don't have a clue about what's really going on here.

Pat

At least 2 of us.

Highlander · September 21, 2014, 05:54:54 PM

I'm feeling much better today... onwards we go...

Books...

Remember that my views are somewhat narrowed by my Island history, so... oh yes, and most of the best titles I have are already packed for that planned trip to the land of the (not so) free and not looked at any older title in over a decade so going from memory...

A Dance Called America by James Hunter - perfectly titled for some of yous folks about what became of some of my ancestors and why they left...
On The Crofter's Trail by Craig David - another study on the Clearances...
John Prebble books are a good intro - Culloden, Glencoe, The Highland Clearances... he did some good general and other histories on Scotland too...
Some of you will know of a film called Zulu, which was based on an article of his, and he also wrote the film's script...
A Shilling For Your Scowl by James Shaw Grant is an interesting and eye opening account...
Social Island histories - a couple by a cousin of my late mums, Calum Ferguson, called Children Of The Black House and Lewis In The Passing - my Island's culture, like the language, is dying, but (the language) is still stubborn enough to lie down and accept it - these are probably too specific for you though... there is an older title called Peat Fire Memories by Kenneth MacDonald - all three of these titles are first hand tales...

Which bit of the history do you want to learn more about and i'll try and find you a specific title or titles...? the boxes need re-packing anyway... there are quite a few that are yet to be packed together anyway as I tend to buy new and older titles whenever I go Home...
One of the last I got was called The Soap Man by Roger Hutchinson - the story of the last man to OWN the Hebrides - Lord Leverhulme - of Lever Brothers & Unilever fame... after his death, his wife eventually gifted the Island, in trust, to its inhabitants, sort of...

I have a few hundred titles on Scottish and Island histories and such... there is even a large format title I have on the unique wrought ironmongery of the Island, as in WWII it was considered too expensive to have it all taken down and re-cycled... fascinating book, in a highly geeky way...

Oh yes, the 1745 Rebellion that ended at Culloden in 1746... not so good for my family as the Appin Stewart's, my ancestors, fought on the side of the Jacobite cause and post that battle fled for their lives as most of those that fought were hunted down and killed: man; woman; child...
As for the English V Scots nature of the battle, that bit of history is not entirely clear for some as Scots fought on both sides of the line...

patman · September 22, 2014, 05:38:34 PM

this will get me started...

Highlander · September 23, 2014, 04:20:24 PM

Let me know how you go...

Uwe... check out UKIP... that is what is keeping Cameron awake at nights...

Psycho Bass Guy · September 24, 2014, 01:34:52 AM

Let's not mention Glencoe.

Highlander · September 24, 2014, 04:28:51 PM

Walked that road, as you know, and have both sides in the family, as you also know...

patman · September 24, 2014, 06:15:14 PM

The John Prebble books seem readily available...probably a good place to start?

Highlander · September 25, 2014, 03:44:40 PM

Old books, but it's an old story... they are a good read... enjoy the history lesson...

westen44 · September 26, 2014, 08:40:13 AM

I was a little surprised to see the humility displayed by some of the English who seemed to be literally pleading for Scotland to stay. In a world which seems to be sinking into chaos at times, Scotland certainly got international attention for a while. Plus, 45% may not have been enough to win, but the way I look at it, that's still quite high.

Highlander · September 26, 2014, 10:52:25 AM

Politics is banned here so I'll step lightly...
The British Empire should be called the English Empire as that is what it has always been...
James the Sixth of Scotland destroyed the Scottish economy, threw it away in an appalling fashion, but a cousin of his, Elizabeth I, died with no heir, so he got the gig by signing over the whole country whilst the then equivalent of the Civil Servants (the people that did and still do run things, not the puppets that are there for a while as "figureheads") took control of it all...
As a land mass Scotland is pretty insignificant but without it England is as diminished as its Empire and the only thing my government is concerned about is its feet under the top-table...

Political facts: it is difficult to put the equivalent across to an American population but here goes...
Three party politics... Conservative = right wing, Liberals = middle ground, Labour = socialism/right-wing
Others: the Irish, Scots and Welsh have a semi devolved political structure, which loosely translated means let's throw them a bone and let them think they have control of their lives...
The realities for the three parties and why they would wish to keep Scotland is as follows...
Labour - Scotland is a predominately Labour/Scottish Nationalist Party block vote and a general consensus of opinion here is that they would never get a clean majority again without Scotland...
Liberals - we're screwed...
Conservatives - Oh My God, what will the Americans think...?!?!?! Our Permanent Seat on the UN Security Council will be lost...!!! The G8 will become the G7... they only think of themselves and the powers they would lose and not the people - You have E Pluribus Unum, and our political leaders have Ubi Sit Pecunia and stuff you lot...
The spanner-in-the-works is UKIP - the United Kingdom Independence Party - which will take a lot of Tory voters with it next May, which is the thing they presently fear the most; that and trying to balance the books re what they have promised the Scottish people and how the rest of the country now is angry about it...

Geographical fact... there is a ring-road around London called the M25 and within it lives 2.5x the population of the whole of Scotland...

End of political education discussion...