Mesa 400+

[drbassman]

So, I know some of you have had or have one.  Tell me what you think of them.  The chat on Talkbass is pretty positive.  What do you folks think???

[Dave W]

I love mine but I haven't gigged it in years. Will be selling soon, let me know if you're interested.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

If you're in a Blues Traveler or Soundgarden cover band, they're a necessary part of that bass sound, but even with a better-suited 12AU7 driver swapped for the too-gainy 12AX7, the bottom is flubby and almost impossible to get to punch. If you've ever had to use a Fender tube guitar amp for bass- that's their sound.

[drbassman]

Oh, not exactly what I'm looking for.  Doesn't anyone make a tube amp with a tighter bassy bottom end?

[Nocturnal]

What about the Mesa Buster Bass head Psycho? Is that just a lower powered version of the 400+? Is the D180 worth a look or do most of Mesa's tube heads tend towards the same sound?

[Dave W]

If you're in a Blues Traveler or Soundgarden cover band, they're a necessary part of that bass sound, but even with a better-suited 12AU7 driver swapped for the too-gainy 12AX7, the bottom is flubby and almost impossible to get to punch. If you've ever had to use a Fender tube guitar amp for bass- that's their sound.

I can't agree with you there. Mine is much punchier and tighter than any SVT I've ever played, and that's through two Mesa/EV 1x15s. Never flubby.

OTOH the bottom end is not especially bassy compared to the best SS power sections. I don't think you can have it all in a tube head.

[drbassman]

I do have a compressor now that might remedy the low end issue.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I can't agree with you there. Mine is much punchier and tighter than any SVT I've ever played, and that's through two Mesa/EV 1x15s. Never flubby.

OTOH the bottom end is not especially bassy compared to the best SS power sections. I don't think you can have it all in a tube head.

My other tube bass amps have that 'punch in the gut' factor, the s/s-like low end. I suspect my 400+ could do with a rebias that I don't have time to do right now, so I may not be giving it a fair shake, but I've played several over the years and they all had the same general characteristics. Mesa doesn't make tube bass amps for punch, IMO. (Their s/s hybrid stuff OTOH- is huge in lows) They're all modified Fender Showman tonestacks with undersized power supplies feeding too many tubes. The Buster is basically a half 400+. The D-180 is probably the best sounding bass distortion amp ever and the Bass 400 and 400+ are just slightly tweaked versions of its preamp with bigger power sections. Dave's Mesa EV cabs are where his amps really shine, and back in the day, ALL the Mesa Bass cabinets came with EVM drivers.

That Peavey VB-2 you were asking about earlier is MUCH closer to what it seems to me what you're looking for outside of some very rare and esoteric tube amps. You'd love the Trace VA/VR series as well as the V-type, and the new Fender Super Bassman is supposed to be very good, but I haven't heard one to verify that. The long discontinued Aguilar DB728 is an absolute beast, likewise with the Peavey Classic 400. Any GOOD Hiwatt or Hiwatt clone will have plenty of clean punch as well. The OLD Eden VT300 made by Koch Electronics is also a VERY sweet amp. I have all of those except for the Super Bassman and Hiwatt, but I did have the DR103 that the Georgia Satellites used to record "Keep Your Hands to Yourself" for several years. If you can find one and get it in good running order, the Fender 300PS and 400PS are monsters, but be aware that you have to have THREE 4 ohm cabs for the 400PS and that the 300PS only has a single 8 ohm output. Sunn 2000S's have a great sound all their own, too.

Tube bass amps can do big, tight lows with that wonderful tube compression, but they have to be set up VERY well to do it. Low end requires current, which increases exponentially as frequency drops to maintain output power. That requires two things: a design that supplies enough drive current to its power section- that's why the Fender 300PS and 400PS can have the same modified Showman/Bassman preamp as their lesser powered brothers and be much more punchy- they have a completely different output section drive scheme and a power supply that has the current on tap to do so. The Mesa 400+ is a 225 watt amp on a good day. The dozen 6L6GC's in its output section are capable of 360+ clean watts depending on their quality, but the amp's power supply can't provide them with enough current to do that. The Mesa 400+'s main supply rail runs at around 550 volts on the plate and 300 on the output tube screen grids.  An SVT runs around 700 volts on the plates and 550 on the screens. The Trace VR/VA series uses an ultralinear output transformer and puts over 725 volts on the plates AND screens.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I do have a compressor now that might remedy the low end issue.

Tightening up the lows via split-band compression (what your SMX pedal does) would definitely help matters. If you still have your Prodigy, you may want to try it with the Trace. It wouldn't hurt matters to try both in the instrument and line level inputs. The Trace supplies enough power to drive all of them.

[gearHed289]

Oh, not exactly what I'm looking for.  Doesn't anyone make a tube amp with a tighter bassy bottom end?

Ever consider an SVT III Pro? I've been loving mine since 1997. It's very close to an original SVT tone-wise, but with a tighter low end. And it weighs 26 pounds. 3 12AX7 preamp tubes, a 12AU7 and another 12AX7 for drivers, and a solid state power section.

[drbassman]

Tightening up the lows via split-band compression (what your SMX pedal does) would definitely help matters. If you still have your Prodigy, you may want to try it with the Trace. It wouldn't hurt matters to try both in the instrument and line level inputs. The Trace supplies enough power to drive all of them.

I did sell the Prodigy to buy some other stuff (Terror and Scout).  But will try the Trace out on both those amps, although the Scout has a pretty good EQ graphic equalizer in it already that does put out a very good bottom end.

[drbassman]

Ever consider an SVT III Pro? I've been loving mine since 1997. It's very close to an original SVT tone-wise, but with a tighter low end. And it weighs 26 pounds. 3 12AX7 preamp tubes, a 12AU7 and another 12AX7 for drivers, and a solid state power section.

Well this sounds a  little more like what I'm looking for.  I am leaning toward hybrids after my all tube experiences.  What do the rest of you guys like abut the 3 Pro?

[Dave W]

I've never tried the SVT-3 Pro. My older son has an SVT-4 Pro. I had it at my house for over a year while he was stationed in Korea. Not everyone likes them but I was impressed by how versatile it was.

[Pilgrim]

I keep waiting for Bill to try a Genz ShuttleMax or Streamliner.  Hybrids don't come any better.

But then, Rahock and I have drunk the Kool-Aid on Genz amps.

[drbassman]

I keep waiting for Bill to try a Genz ShuttleMax or Streamliner.  Hybrids don't come any better.

But then, Rahock and I have drunk the Kool-Aid on Genz amps.

Is one better than the other?